Help! Help! I'm Being Suppressed (Digitally)

Even years before the overturning of Roe v. Wade, reproductive health and rights organizations were noticing that their abortion content posts were being removed, suspended, shadow banned, flagged, and subject to advertising suspension. Jane Eklund, Tech and Reproductive Rights Fellow at Amnesty International USA, sits down to talk with us about abortion content digital suppression on social media platforms.

Across social media platforms, abortion-related content is often removed or interfered with in some way even though it does not violate the social media platform’s community guidelines. This can lead to decreased engagement, reach, and visibility for content related to abortion and that is often posted by sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice organizations. Digital platforms have also become spaces were criminalization has increased; police have seized Facebook messages and Google searches to prosecute people for searching for and obtaining  abortion care.

Links from this episode

Amnesty International USA on Facebook
Amnesty International USA on Twitter
Plan C
Abortionfinder.org
Ineedana.com
Repro Legal Helpline
Repro Legal Defense Fund
Digital Defense Fund

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro]

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Hi rePROs! How's everybody doing? I'm your host Jennie Wetter and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, before we get started, just a little bit of housekeeping today. First, do you love the podcast? Do you tune in every week? Now you can wear your support for rePROs Fight Back. If you donate a hundred dollars or more to Repro Fight back by December 31st, you'll receive a free, adorable custom tote bag that we had designed right to your door. So, whether you're at the grocery store, on the subway, or just out and about, you can remind everyone that abortion is a human right and not a dirty word. So, donate to rePROs Fight Back today at reprofightback.com. Y'all, the tote bag is so cute. We had them at the American Public Health Association Conference, and y'all, when I tell you, the bags went flying out of our booth like hotcakes, it is, like, the biggest understatement. We ran out of them basically in the first day. We held a couple back for the following two days, but honestly, they were basically gone in like three hours. They were a hit. People were running up to people asking them where they got their adorable tote bag. If you go to social media, you can see pictures of it. You'll see it on our website when you go to our website. It is super cute. It is in that hot pink and purple of our cover art. And it says ABORTION in huge words. And then in smaller words, it says, "it is a human right and not a dirty word." And y'all, I love my tote bag. So yes, if you wanna support the podcast, donate a hundred dollars or more before the end of the year, and an adorable toe bag will be yours. I hope you get your bag. And the next big news...rePROs Fight Back is a finalist in two categories for the Anthem Awards! Y'all, I am so excited. The Anthem Award awards were started by the Webbys and it honors purpose and mission-driven work. Y'all, we are in amazing company, and I'm really, I'm just so overwhelmed and in awe that we are a finalist in two categories. So, one for human and civil rights, and one for diversity, equity, and inclusion. And both of them for awareness and media campaigns. And I, y'all, I am just, I can't believe it. I am so excited. But if you wanna show your support, we'll have the links in the show notes. These are community awards, so it means y'all need to go and vote to support us. So, we'll have links on social media, but we'll also have links in the show notes if you want to go and vote and support us. I am just so excited. We have- this work has just been a mission of love and a real passion project of mine. And so, to see it being honored, even just as a finalist, it makes me so happy and so proud and so proud of my team. Rachel and Elena, the two of you have been doing amazing work for us. Rachel has been with me from the very start. So, like, this award, I'm sorry- being a finalist is just as much in celebration of her as it does of me. And same with Meg, who's our editor. Like, all of this would be, would not have happened without, without them, or for your support, y'all. Like, if you hadn't taken to the podcast, or listened to the podcast or become an audience member, like, I wouldn't still be doing this 16 years or 16, wow. Six years later. And we would've never been a finalist for this award. So, yeah, if you wanna go show your love and celebrate us—that's what they call instead of voting—and go and celebrate us, we'll have links in the show notes. But mostly I'm just really excited that we are finalists and it’s wow. It's a lot to have this outside validation of the really great work that I feel like we are doing. So yeah, so excited. And honestly that is all that is in my brain right now. Hearing that we are finalists is still really new to me when I'm recording this. So, that is all that's on my brain at the moment. It's pretty overwhelming. I didn't expect it to happen, and I'm so excited and just so proud of our work and our team and yeah, finalist in two categories, what?! Okay with that, let's turn to this week's interview because I'm also very excited about this because it's something we haven't really talked about a lot, and that is about digital suppression around abortion. It's a really important topic and I am so excited to have on the podcast Jane Eklund from Amnesty International USA to talk to us about all things digital suppression. So with that, let's turn to my interview with Jane. Hi, Jane. Thank you so much for being here.

Jane: Thank you so much for having me. I'm super, super excited to chat with you today.

Jennie: Yes. So, before we get started do you wanna take a quick second and introduce yourself and include your pronouns?

Jane: Yeah, totally. So, my name is Jane Eklund. I use she/her pronouns, and I'm the Tech and Reproductive Rights Fellow at Amnesty International USA. And in my work, I primarily focus on the suppression of abortion content online.

Jennie: So, we've talked so much on this podcast about always abortion is under attack and access is under attack, but like, we really haven't gotten into that digital space yet and, like, all of the things we need to be thinking about in that sphere, and it is one of the things that we're seeing a lot of is digital suppression. Do you maybe wanna tell us a little bit about what your research- you have seen in your research?

Jane: Yeah, of course. So it is, as you've said, it's a pretty sort of vast and complicated sort of sector of the abortion rights movement, the fight for abortion rights. So, I can definitely dive quite deeply into the topic of abortion content suppression online. But just for a bit of context for listeners: abortion content suppression has existed for years, absolutely before Roe v. Wade was overturned with the Dobbs decision. But immediately after Dobbs stripped away federal protections for abortion, reproductive health and rights organizations reported a massive spike in their abortion-related content being taken down, flagged, seeing their accounts hidden from their followers, et cetera. So, to dive in, like, what is digital suppression? Like, what does it exactly refer to? I would say that there are four sort of major things or major trends with suppression that we're seeing. Those things are: content removal/account suspension, shadow banning, reporting/moderation issues as well as advertising restrictions. So, to jump right in, when it comes to the first one, content removal and account suspensions—we’ve seen reproductive rights organizations have their content taken down by platforms like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, even though the content that they are posting is not going against community guidelines. And community guidelines are kind of like a set of rules that a social media platform has that dictates the type of content or behavior that is permitted on the platform. And sometimes these guidelines can be quite vague, to be honest, which can leave them fairly open to interpretation. So, with that in mind some examples of content takedowns that organizations and activists have faced include one organization that posted a graphic on their page that explained the WHO recommended protocol for how to have a medication abortion. So, it showed like a drawing of a person putting pills in their mouth with information on the dosage of mifepristone and misoprostol you would take to have a medication abortion. This post was removed from Instagram and they cited a violation of their guidelines on the sale of illegal or regulated goods. This organization was absolutely not selling mifepristone or misoprostol. They were just simply sharing what the process of taking medication for an abortion looks like. And they were just sharing this with their followers, so they would be well-informed, because a lot of people don't really know what the process looks like if they haven't had a medication abortion. One other example I can give is that of an organization that shared an abortion dictionary on their Facebook page. And it was just to clarify abortion-related terms that people commonly see, but they may not understand, like which medications are used, you know, other sort of terminology that might not be common knowledge. But this post was removed by Facebook for "not following community guidelines." There was no explanation of which guidelines were violated. They were just told that the posts somehow went against those guidelines. They somehow went against the rules of the platforms. So, the content takedowns, there can be like a real lack of transparency when it comes to why something was removed in the first place or there can be sort of incorrect citations of, like, the sale of illegal or regulated goods policies when there's absolutely no mention of sales. Or people will incorrectly flag content as violent or graphic when there's absolutely nothing violent or graphic about it. It'll just be a text post saying, here's how you can access abortion. So that is, so content removals are one major thing. I also wanna talk a bit about shadow banning which severely limits the reach of a social media account. I would say that this has been most common on Instagram, just based on reports from our partner organizations. It can happen on many different social media platforms, but this is just the primary one that we've heard at Amnesty. And shadow Banning can have a number of effects for an account. So, let's say I have an Instagram account with 100,000 followers that is shadow banned. When this happens, I wouldn't get any notification that I'm being shadow banned from Instagram, right? It just happened out of the blue. If I am shadow banned and I post content, it may not show up for most of my followers, and I might get around a hundred likes for a post that would normally get 5,000 likes. Also, if people try to search for my account with the search bar, my account might not pop up in the results. You might have to go to your own follower list, or you may have to Google my username and click the hyperlink to get to my account. Also, maybe my Instagram story might not show up for my followers, or it may not be at the top of the list, the way that it usually is if you frequently engage with my content. So, this is a pretty nefarious and also mysterious form of content suppression, because sometimes it just happens, again, out of the blue and it's really difficult to tell what triggered it if a single specific post triggered the shadow ban. We've heard from some organizations saying like, I posted about medication abortion or something about how to access pills and then my account was shadow banned. Or, you know, my account was...you know, sometimes it's also not even shadow banned. It's just like an account suspension. Like, people just have their accounts pulled and will rely on backup accounts to share information. So, there are many ways in which social media platforms can restrict the visibility of content and also restrict the visibility or the ability of accounts to post information and share information. And the next sort of type of suppression under the umbrella of oppression, another thing I want to mention is the abuse of reporting or content moderation tools. It's much harder to sort of collect clear evidence on this issue, but many reproductive rights organizations fear that social media users that are against abortion may be flagging their posts for content moderators, and then the moderators will have a knee jerk reaction to a post that mentions abortion or if it mentions abortion pills and just take the post down immediately, even if there is not a clear policy violation. And to just give a little more context or information on this: on most social media platforms, any user can report any piece of content, and they get to just choose from a list of reasons that explains why they think this piece of content should be taken down. So, they can look at a post about abortion pills and immediately report it and, you know, falsely report it for saying it promotes the sale of illegal or regulated goods, even if it's not right. And then, that report can go to a content moderator, and this is the person who reviews the content and they decide if the post does or does not go against community guidelines, and they choose to keep the content up or to remove it. So that is what the process usually looks like. So, if an abortion rights organization has their content removed they can appeal that decision in an attempt to get it reinstated, to get the post back up on their page. But this can take a while and it's just additional work and stress that social media managers have to deal with. And while the post is being appealed, it's not being shown to users, right? It's still off of the page. They can't get this information. So, again, it's just like this long sort of limbo that a lot of organizations are stuck in when they're trying to appeal. And this is, like, across social media accounts. The appeals process is really time consuming and can be quite difficult for organizations. And then finally, the last sort of example that I really wanted to go over—because I think this is something a lot of people aren't aware of—is advertising restrictions. So, several platforms restrict the advertisement of abortion services in their advertising policies. So, TikTok, for example, lists abortion services as unsuitable services for advertising. They provide no further explanation as to why it is an unsuitable service or, like, what, you know, what makes something unsuitable, right? And abortion services are lumped in with this list with, like, funeral services and human organ trading, which is also prohibited. And at the list of all these unsuitable services, TikTok just states in kind of an umbrella sort of prohibition that they prohibit any other businesses, products, or services that are highly controversial, distasteful, violent, or dangerous. So, to lump abortion into this category is obviously highly, highly stigmatizing. And another example, just one more, is Reddit, which has some restrictions on abortion advertising. And, you know, the abortion subreddit has been hailed as, like, a fantastic resource for abortion seekers, people seeking logistical support, emotional support, et cetera. But Reddit only allows abortion clinics to advertise general family planning services, but they explicitly don't allow them to mention pregnancy termination in the ad. So, abortion clinics can advertise other services, but they can't even mention abortion services. So again, after, you know, with all of these examples, those are just some of the main forms of digital suppression that organizations are facing online when trying to share information about abortion. And just kind of a slight switch of gears, I just wanted to quickly note that the vast majority of posts that get taken down discuss medication abortion. Like, what it is, how you can access it, the medications used in the procedure. And this is so alarming for advocates because medication abortion is the most common method of abortion in the United States—over 50% of abortions are medication abortions. And it's the primary target of the anti-abortion movement, which is actively trying to restrict access to mifepristone in the US even though it's been proven to be an incredibly safe drug. So again, it's just concerning that this is the trend that we're seeing online with content suppression and also offline in the anti-abortion activist playbook.

Jennie: I have to say, one of the things I think about is like the shadow banning, or like on Twitter, the like algorithm...I just don't know what the, like, messing around with the algorithm that is, like, throttling a lot of repro groups. I think a lot of people outside of the space that deals with it day in and day out, right? Like, the online moderator, like, the online people at your organization, you can start to feel a little like you're trying to connect all the strings and like, explain how this is happening 'cause it's not necessarily something you can see. You're like, no, we're not, we're like, people aren't seeing our stuff, and, like, I can tell people aren't seeing our stuff and then people who aren't in our space, like, you just need to post engaging content, and, like, that'll get people to see it. And you just, you just feel like you're being gaslit and, like, all around because you're like, no, like I know something is happening because all of a sudden one day you saw this huge drop in, like engagement on, on all of your stuff and it's just, it gets in your head.

Jane: Yeah, for sure. And I am constantly hearing that from organizations. It's like, "I feel like I'm being gaslit by this platform. Like, I know, like I am the one experiencing this as the manager for this account. Like, this is real." And yet it's, again, it can be really hard to explain to someone who's not used to, like, a specific account's metrics as well. Like, each social media manager is going to understand and know, like, this is the amount of engagement that I usually get. Sometimes they also have, like, third party websites or applications that can help them to track engagement. And I'm also—this is something that I wanted to bring up was, like, you know, the engaging content thing and it's like, "oh, you just need to post different stuff," which is obviously so frustrating. But another thing that people have been doing on TikTok has been changing the spelling of the word abortion. I think a lot of people are aware of this. There are other terms that a lot of people misspell on TikTok because they fear that, you know, the great algorithm is not going to recommend their content and it's gonna really limit the visibility of it. So, some people have seen, for example, like the word sex on abortion. People will change the spelling to S-E-G-G-S, so like sex to try to quote unquote, like, get around the algorithm. And with abortion advocacy accounts, telehealth providers, basically, most people who talk about abortion have at least at some point tried misspelling abortion. So, they will add a zero instead of an o, they'll do an exclamation point. I think the wildest one I've seen is a boar emoji shun, like they'll do ab boar shun, and I'm like, oh my God, they're coming up with some things these days. So, there are a lot of interesting ways that people are trying to, you know, get around these moderation systems that may be scanning the text in their video to see if this is content that should be recommended, not recommended based on, you know, maybe how appropriate it is for the viewers on TikTok, for example. So, this is something that I've seen just constantly with the accounts, with the organizations I work with who have TikToks, TikTok accounts who again, are just trying to make sure that their information is seen by users. This is all in an attempt to ensure that people can access the information and resources that they need when they're seeking abortions. So, they will try any sort of creative method to make sure that this content and this information is getting out to people. And to make sure that just there's more medically accurate information about abortion that's, like, at the top of your feed and not sort of hidden on the platform, you know, by these systems that exist.

Jennie: It's just so frustrating. And I- it's one of those things, like, I always feel bad for our social person, like, they're doing amazing work, but like, you can't always see it.

Jane: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: And then I think there's worry of like, depending on how your organization works, like, are they doing your performance based on metrics? And like, I, that's one of the things like, I've always been really clear on, like, you can't control that, and I know you can't control that, but like, it does affect people's livelihoods in a way, too.

Jane: Yeah, for sure. It's engagement, you know, being online, having a social media presence, it's all about engagement and making sure that people are engaging with your content so it can impact organizations in so many different ways. And then the person on the other line, again, the social media manager who is again, trying to make sure content stays up, making sure they're appealing anything that gets taken down. Also, worrying about engagement for other posts that are still up. There are so many-

Jennie: So much.

Jane: -so many different, so many facets to this, right? Yeah.

Jennie: Okay. Unfortunately, this isn't the only area that we need to think about the digital space. One of the things that we've started to see is the ways that digital media is being used in cases of criminalization where digital spaces becoming place for getting evidence. Do you may wanna talk about that a little bit?

Jane: Oh yeah, definitely. I think there have been a couple of recent cases that really sort of show this issue or highlight this issue. And we've seen how tech and social media can play a role in criminalization of people who have had abortions, you know, whether that be through private messages, you know, quote "private" messages or things as simple as Google searches. So, one example that I'd really like to point out and that perhaps listeners have heard of is the case of Celeste Burgess, a teenage girl from Nebraska who made national headlines recently. When Celeste was 17 years old, she was investigated for having an abortion. Investigators received a tip in April of 2022 about her. Celeste claimed that she had had a stillbirth or a miscarriage. But police decided to investigate this, and they alleged that Celeste had an abortion after 20 weeks, which was the gestational limit in Nebraska at the time. And police thought that her private messages to her mother on Facebook might have more information. They thought that maybe they discussed this. And police simply submitted a warrant to Facebook and the messages between the teenage girl and her mother were handed over to police. And in those messages, there was discussion of how they would obtain abortion pills, what the pills would do, and what they would do after the abortion. So, ultimately after this all occurred, Celeste was sentenced to 90 days in jail after a guilty plea for charges relating to how she and her mother disposed of the fetus and her mother got a two-year prison sentence for similar charges as well as charges related to performing an abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy. And I highlight this case because people don't realize, again, that their private messages aren't as private as they may think. And there are fears that this could happen again to other abortion seekers in the US that discuss, you know, accessing care via social media messaging platforms, whether that be, you know, it could be Facebook, it could be Instagram, it could be tech talk, or it could just be like text messages to other people, right? Like, people don't really understand, like, how private is private. There was also one other case that I wanted to highlight because, you know, there are similar situations that have occurred in other countries, right? Like, the criminalization of abortion is happening, you know, unfortunately it's happening all around the world and technology is facilitating criminalization in other countries. So one example is that of a woman in England. Recently, a British woman was prosecuted for having a later abortion with pills at home. So, in 2020, right after England went on lockdown for the COVID-19 pandemic, a woman, she was, you know, already a mother of three, she didn't wanna have another child. She decided to terminate her pregnancy at home with pills and, you know, had an abortion. And the court was made aware of the fact that she had made Google searches that said things like, I need to have an abortion but I'm past 24 weeks. And other searches relating to the gestational age of her pregnancy and just noting that 24 weeks is the gestational limit in England. So, this woman eventually was handed a 28-month sentence, but a judge reduced it to a 14-month sort of, like, suspended prison term. So, basically, she could be out of prison with her family, but if she violated any court requirements, they could just throw her right into prison. And again, I bring this up because this, you know, while this is a non-US case, there have been really similar cases in the United States in the past. And I think it's just important to highlight how tech is facilitating criminalization just in a number of different countries. So, kind of to sum it up really, like, something as simple as a message to your mother on Facebook or a Google search could be used against you in court when you decide not to continue a pregnancy, which again, raises so many concerns about digital privacy, what information is being stored online, how easy it is to access this data. And we increasingly live our lives in digital spaces. And these conversations, these digital privacy conversations are, you know, only going to intensify in the future as we continue to sort of share more of our lives and connect with people more often online.

Jennie: Yeah, and I think that relates to location services too. There's just so much that people need to think about when researching abortion services, especially if you're in a state where it is banned. A really great resource to check out is the Digital Defense Fund. They will help walk you through all the things you need to think about in terms of your digital security. Yeah, it's a great resource.

Jane: Yeah, and I'm glad you bring up location services because, you know, after Roe v. Wade was overturned, there was a lot of sort of fears about, like, is my phone going to track everywhere I go? Like, if I go to an abortion clinic in another state, am I going to be tracked or could that be used against me? And you know, Google Maps said that if you're visiting a sensitive location like a reproductive healthcare clinic, then we won't track you. But then, there was sort of conflicting research from a reporter who decided to visit different abortion clinics and only like half of the visits were deleted by Google Maps and the other, you know, visits to these quote "sensitive locations" were stored in the phone. So again, it's almost like we have these kind of, like, location trackers in our pockets at all times. And so again, I really encourage people to be really conscious of, like, how they use location services when they turn them on, when they turn them off. And just be aware that this is a setting that you can control on your phone and it's important that you're aware of this.

Jennie: Sorry, we just had company join us.

Jane: Wonderful company. [laughs]

Jennie: Luckily, I had my sound off because she was rubbing her face on my microphone. Okay. So, I think the next bucket of things that we wanted to highlight was, like, this isn't the end, right? Like, there are new threats that people need to be thinking about. So, what are some of the emerging threats that you're seeing?

Jane: Yeah, there's definitely- there are a number of threats that we've seen, particularly at the state level and in state legislatures I would say, that, you know, threaten access to abortion information online. So, in a number of states there are legislators who have introduced bills that would restrict people from accessing abortion information online or websites where people can access, you know, medication abortion resources, for example. We've seen these types of bills previously pop up in Texas, South Carolina, Iowa, just to name a few. The Texas bill was just pre-filed again. So, the legislator who introduced it isn't giving up on it, wish he would. And it's really like the most severe version of the bill that would restrict access to information online as it would force internet service providers to block access to websites like Aid Access, Plan C. Both sites have resources on how to access medication abortion, even in restrictive contexts. And they also...this bill, if passed, it would restrict access to sites like Hey Jane, which I find very interesting because Hey Jane doesn't even provide telehealth abortion care in Texas. They very clearly state on their website where they operate, which states they can provide care to. But Hey Jane does have a ton of information about how to have a medication abortion on their website. It's a great resource for people who want to learn more about the procedure. If they don't understand what the process is, they can read all about it there. So again, it's, to me, it's particularly scary that legislators are introducing these bills because they just want to stop people from even learning about how to have an abortion. I worry that this could also, you know, silence or block websites that can help people to help people with logistical support, support to travel out of state for care. That's another thing. Texas is one of the most restrictive states in the country. People are now traveling to other places for common reproductive healthcare like abortion that should be available to them in their home state. And advocates worry about how far a bill like this would go and if it would impede a person's ability to get information on where they could get an abortion out of state, right? So again, Texas is the most extreme example that we've seen of this, but there are states out there that are, you know, looking for ways to limit access to websites where people can access information or care. And I also wanna note this is really important that these bills are modeled. Some of them are modeled after legislation created for the National Right to Life Committee, an anti-abortion organization. So, the National Rights of Life Committee has essentially this, like, big 30-page anti-abortion bill template on their website that state legislators can essentially copy and paste. And there is a section in it that specifically references the use of technology and websites to aid or abet abortion. So, this is just like another trick out of the anti-abortion playbook. They are very organized and they're attempting to restrict abortion from every angle. I would say some good news in this is that none of these bills have passed, just to make sure everyone's aware. If they were to pass, we know that the challenges to them would be swift and immediate, but there's fear that these bills could pick up steam in 2024, or we'll have other iterations of bills that could try to restrict discussion of abortion online in other ways, restrict access to information, or do it in sort of more covert ways, and then they just try to apply it to discussion of abortion online.

Jennie: I also, so yes, and I also fear that, like, once it starts to pick up speed in this space, it will also expand to the trans space, like, trying to limit people's ability to access abortion...I mean transgender affirming care. I mean also abortion. But this all just really strikes me as just dangerous, right? Like if you can't get information on how to safely self-manage an abortion and safely access medication abortion online, people will turn to unsafe means. And so, like, people's lives are at stake, right? Like, this is all just terrible on so many levels.

Jane: Yeah, I mean, that is the biggest fear is just, you know, the fear that people will seek out unsafe methods of abortion if they're unable to access safe care, right? If they're unable to inform themselves on what a safe abortion is. And just, like, the impacts of this in the real world, not in the digital space, but in the real world, this does have, you know, serious implications for people who need care. And for the millions of people across the US who have, you know, restricted abortion rights, this is a major issue and a major fear. And I'm also glad that you brought up sort of the possibility in sharing the anti-abortion, anti-trans playbook. As we know-

Jennie: It's the same playbook.

Jane: I was about to say, it's the same book! They're reading out of the same book. They're just changing some words. And I know that, like, in some of the anti...you know, I'm sure a lot of folks know about this, or your listeners, perhaps you know about this, but, in a lot of the anti-abortion bills that are introduced at the state level in the same breath or the same sentence, there was strict funding for abortion care and gender affirming care in the same line. Like, truly, you cannot make this up. It's just really sort of horrific that, you know, they're just kind of sharing tips and they're sharing the different ways in which, you know, access to healthcare, access to essential healthcare can be restricted through these really, really nefarious bills.

Jennie: Yeah, and I just wanna be clear, just in case I wasn't, when I talked about unsafe abortion, self-managed abortion with pills is very medically safe. It is safe.

Jane: Yes.

Jennie: Yes. It may be legally risky if you are in a state where abortion is banned, that is where your risk lies, not in the pills being unsafe. It is- if you can't get access to the information about those safe self-managed methods and get access to safe pills, people may turn to other means which would be unsafe. So, just wanting to make sure not all self-managed abortion is unsafe. There are very safe means using abortion pills.

Jane: Exactly.

Jennie: Just wanted to make-

Jane: Yeah.

Jennie: -wanted to make sure I was clear on that. Okay. Okay, the last thing we always do is look at: what can our audience do to help in this fight right now? Like, how can, what can the audience actions can our audience take?

Jane: Yeah, so I mean, again, we're at like this new digital frontier in the fight for abortion rights. And so, I guess some of the things that I would really strongly suggest, follow reproductive health and rights organizations on social media. And if they have backup accounts, make sure you follow those accounts, right? Like, Shout Your Abortion or Plan C, Women on Web. There are so many different accounts that you can follow that share really helpful information. So, we really encourage you to share their content—like it, repost it, increase the overall reach of abortion advocacy accounts sharing essential information and resources. And also, follow your local abortion fund, follow activists in your state. It's not just big accounts with tons of followers being suppressed. It's also accounts of, like, under a couple thousand followers having their posts removed and their accounts suspended. You don't have to be this, like, super highly visible account with hundreds of thousands of followers to have your content taken down. It can happen to any sort of advocacy account. I would also say, like, support digital campaigns from reproductive rights orgs on social media, you know, signing their petitions, engaging in digital activism from these organizations to push big tech companies to change their policies to ensure that abortion content stays up. You know, Amnesty International USA has been working in coalition with organizations and a group that we like to call Repro Uncensored that was created specifically to combat digital suppression. And we're working to formalize this coalition for future campaigns to fight suppression. So, that is cooking. And if you do see restrictive bills popping up in your state that would limit access to abortion information online, obviously, like fight them, lobby against them, and raise awareness of them. A lot of people don't even know that these bills with this particular language are popping up because sometimes they're hidden in bigger bills. It's like one paragraph and a big bill. So, just keep an eye out and if one pops up in your state, make sure people know about it. Advocacy organizations know about it. And I guess that kind of leads me to my, my last point is just make sure you talk about this issue. The suppression of abortion information leads to silence around the topic of abortion, and we know that silence makes space for stigmatization. So, keep sharing information online, follow abortion advocacy accounts, and above all else, don't stop talking about abortion and abortion advocacy.

Jennie: Jane, thank you so much for being here. It was a lot of fun to talk to you.

Jane: Awesome. Thank you so, so much for having me. It was a pleasure.

Jennie: Okay, y’all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jane. I had a great time talking to her about, I mean, really a wide range of things related to digital suppression and abortion. And I guess before we go, just like the two quick reminders, get your tote bag. If you donate a hundred dollars or more by the end of the year, you'll get these super adorable tote bags. And if you get a chance, go and celebrate us at the Anthem Awards in two categories: Human Rights and Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. And with that, I'll see y'all next week! [music intro] IIf you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprofightback.com. Thanks all!