AMA: You Had Questions, Jennie Has Answers

From the history of how the rePROs Fight Back podcast began to some behind-the-scenes sneak peaks, Tarah Demant, Interim National Director of Programs, Advocacy, and Government Affairs at Amnesty International USA, asks host Jennie Wetter a collection of ask me anything (AMA) questions.

Links from this episode

Amnesty International USA on Twitter
Amnesty International USA on Facebook
Tarah Demant on Twitter
Plan C
Abortionfinder.org
Ineedana.com
Repro Legal Helpline
Repro Legal Defense Fund
Digital Defense Fund

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro]

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Tarah: Hey, rePROs! Bet you're expecting Jennie. This is Tarah Demant and I have taken over rePROs Fight Back so that we can do an Ask Me Anything with your favorite rePROs podcast host Jennie Wetter.

Jennie, thank you for being here on your own podcast with me!

Jennie: Hey! It's always weird being on this side of the microphone.

Tarah: I'm really excited. I think a lot of people like myself are really excited to hear from you, more from you as a guest on your own podcast. So, thanks for letting me hostile take-over your podcast so we can get into questions.

Jennie: It's always fun.

Tarah: Thank you to all the listeners who sent in questions. Let's just dive in. So, one of the questions we got, and it's one of my questions as well, is: what actually inspired this podcast? How did you even get started with this idea?

Jennie: Oh man, this is totally not my idea. I know. So this goes back to a board meeting and, you know, board...

Tarah: As many good ideas often do?

Jennie: Right? With the board throwing out a bunch of, like, why don't we have a podcast?

Tarah: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: And so, you know, we take that feedback back and have discussions. And my boss at the time, Bob Walker, he was really special for a boss and, like, always saw areas where you could grow and expand and pushed you in the kindest, most loving, sometimes hard way-

Tarah: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: -to grow and expand in ways that maybe you hadn't thought of. I mean, he always did that to me. And he's like, well, I think I think you should do this. And I'm just like, introvert me is like...this sounds like my literal nightmare of being on microphone, saying things, people listening to what I have to say. So, I started talking to some friends, Tarah was probably one of them-

Tarah: Hi!

Jennie: And was, like, so this idea came up, I don't know how I feel about it. Our friend Nina was like, you should absolutely do this and run with it. And Jamila Taylor also was like, "do this, do it, do it." And like, just a bunch of people who got very excited by the idea. And then, so, you know, I always say like, Bob dragged me kicking and screaming into the idea.

Tarah: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: -of like, doing this podcast. And I was then very clear of like, okay, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it my way. Like, here are, here is the podcast I dream of and this is how I wanna do it. I based it off of like bits and pieces I liked about, like, multiple other podcasts. Like, I wanted to do a deep dive explainer type podcast, but I didn't wanna be the voice of authority because, like, I know so many great people that can come and shine and talk about great things and I can just ask them questions. And so, I thought that was like a great opportunity to showcase like all of the amazing people I get to work with all the time.

Tarah: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: So, he really let me run with it and come up with the format. And I was very clear, like: okay, I work for the Population Institute, but this is gonna be a sexual reproductive health rights and justice podcast. And like, that's what we're gonna talk about. Full stop. And anything that falls under that umbrella and he really let me run with it. So, even if it's things that we don't work on every day—so like, we did one about ex work is a public health issue and like a lot of trans stuff that we don't work on, but like sign on to but don't spend a lot of time day to day in my job working on—and he really gave me room to run with all of that of like, it falls under that umbrella. Like, just do your thing and really just lemme figure it out and work it out on my own. And, I'm really grateful for that. Tarah: I mean, management take note, right? Jennie: Right. Tarah: There's a way to think about and grow ideas and skill and dive in. What need did you see this filling? I mean, I'm interested that obviously this came from an outside—or an internal obviously your board—but like, someone had this idea and you were like, maybe not for me, but this actually does fill a need. What was that need that you saw? Jennie: Yeah, so we launched in December 2017, so it'll be six years ago. Tarah: Wow. Really? Jennie: I know. Tarah: Boy, blink of an eye. Jennie: This was like not quite a year into the Trump administration when this Yeah. When this launched. And I don't know about you, like things were flying fast and furious in those early days of like terrible policies and like trying to keep track of like all of the- Tarah: It was a tsunami. Jennie: Right. It was just, you know, we joked about like, you know, usually we're like putting out a fire, but like everything was on fire all at once. Yeah. I mean, the fire was- Tarah: On fire. Yeah. Jennie: But, like, now that has escalated with the loss of Roe. So like, it's like happier days? No, that's not true at all. But, like, it- Tarah: Poor [inaudible] of the [inaudible] to come. Jennie: It’s just like coming from everywhere, right? Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: And it was hard to keep track. And I'm, like, if we're having a hard time- Tarah: Right. Jennie: -staying on top of this, it just seemed really important to make sure that people were aware of all of the ways that sexual reproductive health and rights were being undermined because things were getting attention, but not all the things. Tarah: Right. Right. Jennie: Like, there were attacks at HHS that people maybe weren't just familiar with or some of the global stuff, right? Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: Like, Global Gag Rule might get, like, big news, like, quick, but, like, not a consistent, like, what is actually happening. And so, it felt really important to me to make sure that some people had a place to go where they could get more than that, like soundbite or quick resource. And I didn't wanna be like...everything was on fire, and it just was so depressing and enraging and I didn't want people to...I didn't want it to end there. Tarah: Right. Jennie: Like, that was very important to me when we were starting, like, I don't want people to listen and just get mad. Tarah: Right. Jennie: So, that became quickly my- okay, we need to end every episode with actions. Tarah: Right? Jennie: So, what can people do to fight back? How can you engage around these issues? And so that really built the format, like right away was like, okay, it's gonna be like an explainer type podcast, done an interview style, and then with a tag at the end of advocacy. Tarah: Yeah. It, it makes me think about like what resistance, you know, to that administration and they're just like drastic anti-rights regime could look like, and the format of like, learn what you can, make sure it's connected, that you see the whole, it's connected to all these pieces and then do something about it. And here's what you can do. Right. Yeah. And I think it's one of the things I've thought has most been most successful about your podcast is it helps deep dive into issues that even those of us who professionally work in this field, you know, you can get so siloed that you seal the pieces together and then there's this place and here's what people can do. Right. Here's how we are moving forward on this. How has this changed? How has the podcast changed? I mean, one, you know, we're in a different administration, but the attacks on sexual reproductive health and rights on human rights in general, I mean, they're everywhere and it's so diffuse in some ways. You can lose track of it. So, have you seen a big change at the podcast? Or do you think, you know, it's kind of more the same and you're painting that holistic picture, does it feel less urgent? Does it feel more urgent? Jennie: I mean, there was a little bit of that worry. I mean...not worry, that's not fair...of like, are we gonna be able to keep going in the same way? Like, it was really like pushing back against all of the terrible things, but they didn't really stop. Tarah: Right. Jennie: I mean, like, the Biden administration definitely took action and made things better. And we definitely did episodes talking about like, here's the vision of what we wanna see happen. Here's what has changed on this or what has changed on that. And that is just as important as fighting against the things. Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: Because things may have gotten better, but there was still always room for improvement. Yeah. I mean, we're advocates, right? We're always gonna push for the best. And you're never gonna, very rarely are you gonna get that. Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: In policy. Like, there's always ways to make it more impactful and hit more people. But then the attack on human rights globally has really just escalated the last couple years. And, you know, the attacks on this at the state level were never really slowed down. Tarah: Mm-hm. Mm-Hm. Jennie: And also, like, exploded around trans rights issues. Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: So, in many ways, like nothing changed. And almost- like I said, like, it almost became more urgent, especially with the loss of Roe. Tarah: Right. Jennie: Because we were just talking about like this whole other scale, right. Of like trying to get people access to healthcare. Like, abortion access was by no means good before the loss of Roe. So, like that was a really important conversation, but it became that much worse. Tarah: Right, right, right. Jennie: And so, it just still was really important to talk about. Tarah: I mean, I think one of the really important reminders, right? Is that under the Trump administration, it was just so much more obvious. Yeah, 'cause they were saying the quiet parts out loud, but that actually that resistance to, and those attacks, you know, they were part of a long legacy of an anti-rights and particularly anti-sexual and reproductive health and rights and anti-gender agenda that is still there, right? Even if you have a different administration. And so, needing- the need to be plugged into that is, is still just as important, right? No matter what administration you have at a state level or at a fed level. Well, one last policy question. This one's from me, [inaudible] listeners, your listener myself sent us in, which is, I think one of the things is, you know, the narrative change focus of the podcast, which is one, educating on issues that can be really complicated and breaking them down in conversation, but also like really mainstreaming things that can be thought of as really wonky, like policy obviously, like we sit in DC and like we do a lot of adjusting air glasses, like, "well actually," you know, like, with policy and like that's, you know, that's our job and that's good. But also, things that there's still so much stigma around so many pieces of sexual reproductive health and rights, particularly as policy, but also of course in like everyday living. And obviously abortion stigmas. I think a lot of people know about that. But, but even stigma around, you know, other sexual reproductive health and rights issues. What narrative change do you see this podcast work, like, trying to do? Jennie: I, well, of course Tarah comes with the hard question of like, have you thought about this? I wanna make sure I'm leading by example. And like, that has always been really important to me. And like, I had values baked in from the beginning that were really important to me that I was hoping people would hope maybe notice, but like, were maybe not notice, like, outright, but like that it was just really important that it was ingrained in. I really- like, justice was one of those things. I, I, when we launched the podcast, we launched with three episodes that day. And it was one looking back on like domestic repro one looking at global. And then I really fought to have a reproductive justice one that day. And like, it was a little bit of scrambling to make that one happen. And I was worried it wasn't gonna come out that same day, that it might come out a week or a couple weeks later and everyone's like, it's whatever. Like it's, nobody's gonna care. Like it doesn't matter. But it mattered to me. Tarah: Right. Jennie: Because that was the story I wanted to tell. Tarah: It centered your values. Jennie: And like, I wanted to make sure that it was embedded in and that I was really being thoughtful with guests and, like, making sure that I wasn't only gonna certain groups or certain people that I was really spreading out and talking to as many groups as possible. And this isn't quite answering your questions. Tarah: No, it is. Jennie: It's a little bit of a different one. But like, and then, so like that was part of it, but then also like working on language. And so that was like one of the early episodes I wanted to do that we ended up not doing until much later. And so, it was like, should we wait to do the episode talking about language and why language matters or should I just make the changes and just do it? Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: And then when we get around to finding the right person to do this episode. Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: We'll do it then. And I had a lot of back and forth in my head on what the right path was to go. Like people, do people need it, like, spoon fed to them? Tarah: Right. Jennie: Do we need to explain why we talk about pregnant people? Or why we shouldn't talk about heartbeat ban or why language- Tarah: Why language matters. Jennie: Correct. Yep. And so, we just decided to just do it. And I think I might have done, like, an introduction or, like, may have mentioned it at some point. Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: But I might have just started doing it. And then we did the episode talking about language…don't know, last year or the year. Like not, I mean well quite a while after we made the change and like, again, it was the, like, lead by example of it. Of, you know, I always make sure that when I introduce myself, I include my pronouns and ask my guests to include their pronouns because it's that simple Right? Right. To be inclusive and like showing like Yeah. When you introduce yourself to someone, you can just very easily be Hi, you know, I'm Jennie, she/her. Like, it's very easy and- Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: And so, I wanted to try and do things like that. And so all that is to say is I wanted to have it built where the messaging was inclusive in gender as much as possible through the core. Yeah. Sorry, I said gender, I meant justice. [laughs] My brain, y'all. I'm actually on vacation while I'm recording this, so I'm gonna use that as my excuse. Tarah: Vacationing so poorly. Jennie: [laughs] Tarah: But I mean, it shows how you're thinking about narrative change, not just like out there in the listening universe, but actually internal in our work, how modeling matters. As an editing and splicing question, I actually did not introduce myself at all except for to say that I was Tarah. Do you want me to do an intro of like, who I'm, where I come from, or do you, do they care? Jennie: No, that's fine. Tarah: Super, good. Well, let's move to more interesting questions. Jennie: Uh-oh. Tarah: I mean, actually nothing's more interesting in the policy as you know, but for those who have broader interests, like human interests, what's your favorite part of running the podcast? Jennie: I, so I kind of already touched on it, but like, I love getting to talk about things that I don't get to work on because I care about them. And it's important to me and I get to have those conversations even if I don't- it's not part of my day-to-day work. Yeah. And so, I love that. Even though interviewing, like, this was not a skill I had at all. I mean, Tarah was actually the first person I interviewed. We had a practice interview before I started recording. Tarah: Wait, really? Jennie: We did. Tarah: I didn't know that! Jennie: Yes. I interviewed you and I interviewed Bob before I did my, like, actual first recordings. Tarah: You did great. I wouldn't have known. Jennie: And I think I've gotten more comfortable with it. Yeah. And, like, have learned to be a better interviewer. I mean, I like to think so. I dunno if that's true, but so, maybe don't go back and listen to the early ones. I'm sure it's not as- yeah. But anyway, I just really love getting to talk to people and it, and yes, I know that's kind of weird for an introvert, but it is, like, the distance and all the things I think about. Tarah: Well, and also, it's just so interesting. Jennie: It's structured. It's not, we're not doing small talk. Like I have, like, this is the conversation we're gonna have. We're gonna talk about this and we're gonna talk about this, talk about this. Tarah: We have to phantom at a party. Jennie: And I'm like, bye. Tarah: Yes. This is our agenda. Adios. I do love that. We were talking before we started recording about just feeling so, so much less social than we used to. [laughs] We're just so tired. What's the hardest part? What's the least favorite part of the podcast or doing the podcast? Jennie: It's the...so, like, the part you hear is, like, the short part, right? Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: Like, sitting down and doing the interview. But, like, before that, is the emailing the person, trying to schedule, thinking through the outline for how we have the interview, right? Like, sometimes that is easy and sometimes that is hard. The, like, how do we find this path through to have this conversation in a way that makes sense and builds the argument for the audience. And make it make sense to someone who is brand new to the issue, who has been, who's been around it forever, but yeah, it's the minutiae of like: "Hey Tarah! Are you free? Would you like to come talk on this episode?" And like, it's just nonstop. Yeah. Yeah. And, and then there's the like, my favorite, "oh, something came up, I can't do it." Which- totally fine. Like it happens like this is not- Tarah: But you've still got a podcast to get out. Jennie: Correct. This is not me being upset with anybody who has had to do that because dude, life happens. Yeah. And you have to prioritize yourself. Like full, complete stop. But it also means there are weeks where I'm like, Tarah, Tarah, are you free? I need to record something by Friday, can you come? And she usually can. I have, like, my list of people. Tarah: I love talking repro everything. So, absolutely.
Jennie: I have like my short list of people I know- Tarah: [laughs] Jennie: -that like, if they're able, they'll swing like a really quick turnaround. And I am always so grateful for that group of people because they have saved my butt multiple times. Tarah: No, it's stress-inducing. Jennie: And yeah, it's just the, the planning is stressful. The rest of it's fun but, like, yeah. Tarah: Well, other than those ones which I've been on. Which is your favorite episode if you have to not include those. [laughs] Jennie: Yeah. So, like, this is really hard because I love all of them for myriad reasons. So, I think I'm gonna go with the one that maybe means the most to me. Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: So, like, again, if you ask me my favorite episode, I'm gonna have a different answer every day. And it'll probably still gonna be like 10 episodes, but like tomorrow it'll be 10 different ones. Right. Because I do just love them all so much. Which I guess would be sad, right? Like if it, if I didn't love them all. It's my podcast. So, but for this one we'll go with what the one that is the most meaningful to me. And that's the one I recorded. I dunno, last year, the year before again, what is time? Time has no meaning anymore. Tarah: Yeah. What is time? Jennie: I had the wonderful Monica Edwards on, and we talked about intimate partner violence as a reproductive justice issue. And it was like the first time I was like, pretty public sharing my story of my experience and I was so nervous and Monica and I just, like, supported each other through it and like both shared pretty personal stories and, like, had that really personal conversation that I hadn't had before. I did a really personal intro to that episode, and I was scared, I was scared when I hit publish. Like, it was really hard, but I was really felt strongly that, like, if telling this story and talking about this helps even one person. Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: Like, it's all worth. I mean, not like going through all the things, but like it's worth sharing my story. Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: And then I dunno, every once in a while, you know, do like the search to see if the podcast got pulled, like, into things. Yeah. And I saw the Wisconsin Coalition to End Domestic Violence or Wisconsin... Tarah: Oh, nice. Jennie: ...to end domestic violence—or sorry, y'all, I'm so sorry I'm getting your name wrong—shared it as a resource. Tarah: That's amazing. Jennie: And, like, to have a group that works on this in my home state. Yeah. Especially like validating it as something useful. Like it really, it really just meant a lot to me. Tarah: Yeah. It was a really powerful episode. Jennie: Yeah. And it, it really, I'm really grateful to Monica for that because I think, I think it was very collaborative, not in that we planned it to be collaborative or any of those things, but like, I shared something. She felt safe sharing something. So, like, it was very, like, it wouldn't have happened any other way to be as personal of an episode if we hadn't just been so supportive and there for each other. Yeah. So, I'm really grateful for that. Tarah: Yeah. I mean the, one of the things you, you can always plan and think about, have a strategic plan and you actually just don't know at the end of the day. Jennie: No. Tarah: What's gonna resonate with the community? What's gonna actually be more useful than something else? Jennie: And there are just some people that can get that out of you. The other person that really triggered that in a way I didn't expect was actually an episode that you coordinated with Juskwa. Tarah: Oh yeah. Juskwa’s amazing. And like- Jennie: Just like, she just has this presence where you're just like, let me tell you all my deepest secrets and like, tell you all the things. And like, it's so yeah. That was another one of those that just really felt, and like, yes, it was also dealing with intimate partner violence and violence, but like it, she just had that aura about her. Like there are just some people that when you talk to them, invite you to like, share the things. Tarah: Yeah. And it's a privilege to be able to work alongside those folks, right? Yeah. Like, Juskwa’s work on ending violence in indigenous communities is incredibly powerful. And being able to then help other people hear more about that. Jennie: Yeah. Tarah: And make those personal connections, right. That you're, that you're saying. Yeah. No, that's, that's incredible. Well, I have, having been on the podcast and thought and sometimes said out loud while holding a microphone, how, sorry I'm to your editor because so much editing goes on in a podcast. So, here's a shout out to all the editors. Jennie: Yes.
Tarah: And like, who knows, maybe this hits the cutting room floor, right? But I'm wondering of your guests, like who's needed the most edited or a polite, well, you know what, say this more directly. Who has sworn the most on your podcast? This is a question sent in to you. Jennie: Yes. This is a question sent in by the culprits. Actually I, so I have also been very clear about this of, like, I don't go back and re-listen for mental health reasons. Like, I am very much the terrible person of, like, I always joke around that I have Statler and Waldorf live in my head. Tarah: [laughs] Jennie: And so, if I go back and listen to an episode, they'll do their best to just point out all the things right that I did wrong. So, I don't go back and listen, but I dunno that we have edited out any, any swearing. And like, considering the topics and the things we talk about, there has been, there's not a ban on it, right? Like, I, I don't do a lot of it because I know my mother listens and she gets real mad at me when I swear. Tarah: [laughs] Jennie: Because otherwise I swear a lot, but my mom will be listening, so you don't swear on the podcast very often. And I think I, I'm assuming my guests have probably kind of followed that example, but also I can also imagine it's like work. Tarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jennie: So, like, but yeah, so that would be Beirne is probably the worst culprit. Tarah: Or the best culprit. Jennie: The best culprit. I mean- Tarah: Honestly. Jennie: Honestly, she swore a lot less than you would expect if you have also talked to her. Tarah: Well, given how, and also given how fucked up shit is [laughs]. Jennie: Yes. Tarah: Like, it's amazing any of us don't swear the entire time. Jennie: Correct. And I think, and I'm sure some of that is me because I don't swear a lot on the podcast again because my mother listens and I know she... Tarah: We're trying to class it up. Jennie: ...and I know she'll comment. Otherwise, yes. I do fucking swear a lot. Tarah: So much, such, such- Jennie: A world. Yeah. Tarah: What's your, I mean, thinking about guest, another question that we got was like, who is your absolute dream guest? Jennie: I am really terrible at this...of like thinking...I'm always so focused on what's next. Tarah: Mm. Mm-hmm. Jennie: So, I have I think a little bit of a short-term bias of like...oh my God, I don't have a guest for the episode after this. Yeah. Like, who am I gonna get? So, I think I fall into that trap a lot. Right. And so, don't like [inaudible] big. One area that I really have not gone into yet and I think I would love to do at some point. We've talked about, like, legislation and policies, but I haven't had a Congressperson come on and talk about it. Interesting. And that's something I would maybe love to do. Yeah. Like having, you know, someone like Ayanna Pressley come on and talking about some of the great bills she's co-sponsored. Or having like Cori Bush come on and talk about the Equal rights legislation that she is leading on. You know Patty Murray come and talk about, like, all the stuff she's leading in the Senate. Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: I could go with my happy- like, I always have a special place in my heart for Tammy Baldwin. She's like literally the very first person I ever voted for. Tarah: Oh, that's amazing. Jennie: Because she was my representative when I was in college. Tarah: Ooh! Jennie: And before she was in the Senate. She was the representative for the Madison area. So, she was like the first person I voted for. And then, yeah. So, I have not been great about dreaming big. Tarah: It would be nice partly just to hear from legislators too around like, what is it, youknow, we know a lot of on our side how to talk at. [laughs] Like this is what we want, this is what we want, but hearing what, you know, how is the sausage made and, and what are the real challenges inside. Yeah. And, like, the hopes and dreams too of progressive legislatures, legislators who are, you know, supporting sexual reproductive health and rights. What does that look like? And yeah. Yeah. Let's make that happen. Well, we're almost done, which is a shame because I would love to just talk to you forever. And that's one of the joys of the podcast is getting able to like, be in that conversation with you. You're a master of gif sharing. What is your all-time favorite gif? Jennie: It's less an audio question though, right? More visual if you follow the pictures. I'm very like- I used the one for the moment and so I saw this question in advance. Tarah: Oh, okay, excellent. Jennie: So, I was able to like look and be like, is there something I use a lot? Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: And my brain is, like, not coming up with it now, but it's, like, thinking through- it's, like, Schitt's creek ones. And I think it was one dealing with, like- Tarah: They're so good for DC. Jennie: Yes. I think it was one dealing with stress and anxiety, y'all. And I cannot remember what it is, it's a David one. Tarah: There's so many on Schitt's Creek that just the audacity of living in this city in DC and operating in policy and law work is, there's no end to how relevant they are. Jennie: Yeah, totally. I have that and I also have a Bob's Burgers one I use a lot because I love that show. It's like a delightful little warm hug and it's like my- I can watch it a bajillion times. Especially their holiday episodes are delightful. Like Halloween There's this one where Louise has like an, like an eye twitch. Tarah: Yes. Jennie: And that again for our work is very appropriate all the time. Oh, okay. So, the one that you feel I've noticed that I have been using a lot—again, same theme—is David being like, "I'm feeling this like deep aching sense of dread." Tarah: [laughs] 'Cause I opened the news. Jennie: Yeah. I was like, yes. And like a couple years ago, it was the Groundhog Day one I was using all the time because we were waiting for the Supreme Court to decide if they were picking up June Medical services. It was like having to sign in every morning. Tarah: Yup. Jennie: And like, wait. And it was just, like, here we go again. And, like- Tarah: [laughs] I feel like the ones where, "this is not how this works, this is not how any of this works." Like, every time I'm like, this is not government, this is not how this works. Jennie: Oh yeah. I do enjoy—although I don't know that I've used it—are the ones with like the bill on Capitol Hill just being like- Tarah: Oh, that poor beleaguered bill. Jennie: Like, no, Tarah: No. So, so sad. That gif is so sad in itself. Jennie: [laughs] Tarah: Oh, so poor guy. Well, thinking past, I mean, six years is bonkers. Jennie: I know. Tarah: Thinking past, what makes you the most optimistic about the future of repro rights? Six years into the podcast, lots and lots of guests talking about lots of really tough ways in which just nationally and globally, you know, we failed in so many spaces. Yeah. Like these rights are not realized. What makes you the most optimistic? Jennie: Yeah. So, like, thinking big picture and looking at where we are or, like, thinking about individual people who are not able to get the services they need will break me. So, like, I can't do that. Like, that's not helpful. But the things that give hope are seeing this stuff that's happening on the ground, like the abortion funds that are like, doing so much work to ensure that people are still able to get the care they need. Watching, like, Ohio. Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: Like, it's just the energy that keeps me going and like I have turned the terrible things that happen...I turn them into like, okay, this is terrible. Lemme go donate to an abortion fund. Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: Like, it’s always my first reaction when things happen and the work they're doing is lifesaving and life changing. And that gives me hope. Like, the ground, the community on the ground. Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: That is, changing people's lives is really, really what keeps me going. And also knowing big picture, like, shit sucks right now. Like, it's, everything is up and like, sorry, like- Tarah: Sorry, mom. Jennie: Like, sorry, mom. Tarah: But it's so true. Jennie: Like, we started, that's like, like putting the genie back in the bottle. I don't know. But also, is there a better word? I don't think so. Tarah: Not for this government. Jennie: Everything is so terrible and bleak and I also know- Tarah: Mm-hmm. Jennie: -that we are gonna win. It's not tomorrow. It may not be next year, but I know that we are gonna see reproductive freedom and bodily autonomy freedom and reproductive justice for all in my lifetime. I hope. But like, even if it's not, it will happen. And so, being part of that fight is so important and knowing that we're gonna win—even when it doesn't feel like we're gonna win is—keeps me going- Tarah: Yeah. Jennie: -and keeps me in the fight because it's something I'm so passionate about and I care so much about. And there are so many wonderful people doing so much amazing work in this community that are there for each other and just fighting so hard every day. That gives me hope. Tarah: Yeah. I believe in that future. Jennie: Yeah. Tarah: Like, and we've heard so many people on your podcast, I mean, one of the gifts of your podcast is hearing so many people working their asses off to make that future real, right? Jennie: Right. Tarah: And everybody has a place in that fight. You don't have to. And, I wouldn't recommend living in DC, right? Like, you don't have to be in policy. You don't have to be...like, wherever it is, you are, you have a place in that fight. And like, I know we will win. Which brings me to my final question as this podcast comes out, it will be the winter holidays will be upon us. Jennie: Yes. Tarah: People may be going home, they may already live in that community, they may be back with family. They may not be. What advice do you have for folks particularly who are maybe going back to family settings and are just, we all need a break whether or not your family is supportive or not. What can, what can people do? What's something they can take away from this podcast and say, of all the things I get asked to do, I know I can do this one thing. Jennie: Yes. It's so funny, I was actually just thinking today that I dropped the ball on like an episode that I should do. So, hopefully for the winter holidays, I'm gonna be working on an episode of how to answer some questions that you may have around the dinner table. That's not what we're gonna answer today. I do always push people to connect with their abortion fund for a myriad of reasons, right? Like maybe you cannot donate right now and that's totally fine, but maybe they need somebody to help drive or to answer phones or maybe you wanna get a really sweet t-shirt. I'm wearing my Little Miss Reproductive justice t-shirt today that supported an abortion fund. Right? Like there are like lots of fun and unique ways to get involved and like, I had this question, I just came back from the American Public Health Association conference and people were like down about for obvious reasons, like everything being so terrible and, and not knowing how to get involved and, and having like those real tangible things that you can do and where you can see some of that change, I think really makes a difference. So, you know, finding out what your community needs, and abortion funds are a great place to start. Some of them do like mutual aid. So, like, maybe there's doing a diaper drive or, like, thing. There are ways that you can get involved. And so that's always gonna be, like, my first push for places for people to go because, you know, clinics are hard, right? Like, they're so overwhelmed. It's hard to tell people to reach out to a clinic to see what they need. But your local abortion fund is probably connected with them and can help you find ways that you can get involved. And I also think another great place, and sorry I can't remember all of her great suggestions, but when I had on Hannah Matthews, who is an abortion doula, she had some really great tangible things that you could do, like putting together care packages and things like that. Tarah: Like, those in the show notes. Jennie: Yeah. So, like, make sure to go check out that episode with Hannah because she had some really great suggestions and I love that. Tarah: Well, when thinking about the holidays and, and everyone celebrates differently and whether they're stressful family time or a good family time or a no family time or a gift giving or not gift giving. Like it's a good end of the year time to think about, like, where am I investing? Yeah. Whether it's money, if you have it, obviously donate it. Whether it's time, whether it's heart space, like where am I investing? And so, people will look for those episodes, they'll be listening for the next one. Maybe how to talk about abortion at the table. Yeah. Jennie: Maybe it's like a conversation, right? Like, maybe you don't have time or resources at the moment, but maybe a conversation comes up and you can work on destigmatizing. Tarah: Right. Jennie: Abortion and, like, again, assess the space you're in. Like maybe it's not a safe space—don't, like, push yourself—but if there is a way that you can kindly push back, like, that's a great place to start too. Tarah: Well, whatever y'all do, don't do nothing. Do something. Jennie: Yes. Tarah: As we come out. Well, thanks for being on your own podcast. Jennie: Thanks for being here, Tarah! Tarah: Thank you, listeners, for sending in questions and thank you to your future guests who keep us learning and connected and thank you to you and to the rePROs Fight Back community. Jennie: Aw, thanks. And y'all, I'll see you next week. Tarah: Bye. Jennie: [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprofightback.com. Thanks all!