The Impact of Dobbs Ripples Around the World

The Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe v. Wade no doubt impacted countless people in the U.S. But there are even some far-reaching impacts in other countries. Bergen Cooper, Director of Policy Research with Fòs Feminista, talks to us about a new organizational report that details Dobb’s ripple effects around the world. We also hear from Sharon Vilegwa with KMET, Daniel Arango with Oriéntame, Dr. Souvik Pyne with CommonHealth, and Ijeoma Egwuatu with GIWYN, global partners with Fòs Feminista, about how the Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization decision has resulted in on-the-ground impacts in Colombia, Kenya, India, and Nigeria.  

After the Dobbs ruling, there has been an increase in misinformation and negative narratives surrounding abortion, as well as the review of safe abortion as a constitutional right in Kenya. In Colombia, anti-rights actors feel empowered by Roe’s overturning. Myths and stigma surrounding safe abortion continues to ramp up in India. Dobbs has been used to support arguments against safe abortion legal guidelines in Nigeria. While Dobbs does not have legal impacts abroad, its effects bolster the anti-abortion and anti-rights movement.

Links from this episode

Fòs Feminista on Twitter
Fòs Feminista on Facebook
Follow CommonHealth on Twitter
Follow KMET on Twitter
Follow GIWYN on Twitter
Follow Oriéntame on Twitter
The Global Impact of the Dobbs Decision on Abortion Laws, Policies, Legislation, Narratives, and Movements: Findings from Colombia, India, Kenya, and Nigeria
Overturning Roe v. Wade: Concerns for Accessing Sexual and Reproductive Health Services, Including Safe Abortion
Plan C
Abortionfinder.org
Ineedana.com
Repro Legal Helpline
Repro Legal Defense Fund
Digital Defense Fund

Take Action

Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to RePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health rights and justice. [music intro]

Read More

Hey RePROs! Surprise, it's me, your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, there is so much happening this week! Today is World Contraception Day. The 28th is the International Day for Safe Abortion. The 30th is International Podcast Day. And hmm, I feel like there was something else big happening this week...what was that? Right! I'm here! Talking to y'all on a week when I normally wouldn't be talking to you. That's right. If you missed it. Repro is starting to go weekly, and I am so excited there are so many things happening that it just felt like time to change the podcast to weekly. We'll see how it goes. So, I'm really excited. We, a year ago, started the initiative beyond just the podcast where we were doing work. And this year we decided to grow in a different way, and we are growing to do weekly episodes. If you have not signed up for our newsletter already to make sure that you're getting the newsletter, whenever a new episode comes out, make sure to go to our website at reprofightback.com and subscribe to our newsletter. You won't get bombarded with emails, you'll just get a new newsletter every Tuesday when an episode comes out and then if we have a report or something. Yeah, I'm really excited. This is something that we have talked about for a really long time behind the scenes as being a goal of, we were gonna do the podcast weekly at some point, and I am so excited that it's finally happening and I can't wait to talk to y'all more. I feel like doing every other week meant we really kind of had to stick to things that were on fire, right? Because there was so much happening in the realm of issues we cover. So, we were really focusing on what was happening right then and there, but that meant there were some more evergreen topics that weren't getting as much attention because they kept falling down my agenda and my list of episodes and list of topics to cover. So, I'm hoping that this will allow us to talk about more things, some things that are maybe not on top of the agenda all the time. I'm very, very excited. If there are topics you would like us to cover, you can always reach out. You can email me at jennie@reprofightback.com, or you can reach out to us on social media. We're at @reprosfightback on Facebook and Twitter or @reprofb on Instagram and Threads. And with that, let's turn to this week's episode. Y'all, again, I'm just so excited. I hope that you like the new weekly format. I'm just really excited and we could not have done all of this without y'all and your support. So thank you for being with us for so long. Thanks to all of our new followers as well. And I mean, for me, I couldn't have done it without our team. So huge, huge shout out to Rachel, who has just been with me from day one, has handled all of our social and the website and all of those things and made us look so good digitally. She's still with us and doing a lot of the behind the scenes work, including writing some reports and things that you'll be seeing. She has given up the social part as much. So, hi to our new social fellow Elena, who is doing an amazing job with our socials. Again, what a great addition to the team. I am so excited to see the work that they do. They have just been amazing. So, thank you to Rachel and Elena, thank you to Meg, who has been my editor and has been with us since this was just a little dream. And yeah, I'm really excited to continue to grow with y'all and I'm very, very excited about this new weekly format. Okay, enough of that, let's hop to my interview. So this one is a little different. We are going to talk about a new report that Fòs Feminista put out, talking about the ways that we are seeing Dobbs reverberate around the world. You know, in theory, Dobbs shouldn't have any implication on international abortion or US policy internationally but we are seeing things happening in countries around the world due to this Dobbs decision. So, to frame the conversation, I'm gonna talk to the wonderful Bergen Cooper with Fòs Feminista just to give you like the top lines and kind of stitch this whole thing together. And then we have wonderful contributors to the report that Fòs Feminista put out. They're gonna talk about what they're seeing in their countries. So, I hope you enjoy this episode. Hi Bergen, thank you so much for being here today!

Bergen Cooper: Hey, Jennie! Happy to be here with you. Always happy to be here with you.

Jennie: I know, so great. I was actually just thinking when we got on about the time I came to your place and interviewed you! And you had your Christmas tree up and it was like...

Bergen: Yes, it was festive season!

Jennie: I know!

Bergen: We're getting ready for spooky season. I wish you were here. I don't actually wish you were here 'cause I have COVID. So, I'm glad that we're, you know, face to face...

Jennie: The idea of it.

Bergen: The idea of it, the idea of it would be wonderful.

Jennie: Yes. Okay, before we, like, get started, do you wanna take a quick second to introduce yourself and include your pronouns?

Bergen: My name is Bergen Cooper. My pronouns are she and her. I'm the Director of Policy Research with Fòs Feminista. We are an international alliance working to advance sexual and reproductive health and rights and justice for women, girls, and gender diverse people. Your readers or your listeners absolutely know about the detrimental impacts of Dobbs on sexual and reproductive health and rights around the United States. And what we have been learning is that there have been incredible impacts of the Dobbs decision around the world. So, at Fòs Feminista, we partnered with our partners across India, Columbia, Kenya, and Nigeria, to better understand: what is the impact of the Dobbs decision on laws, on policies, on legislations, but also on narratives? Like, what are the narratives that are going through the media, what are the stories in publications and also on movements? What is the impact of the Dobbs decision on sexual and reproductive health and rights movements, but also how is it influencing the anti-rights movement, the anti-gender movement, the movements that are working to restrict access to abortion? So, in order to understand that, we did interviews with over 70 stakeholders, and this included advocates working within the sexual and reproductive health and rights space, with government officials even in some cases with representatives from the anti-gender movement. And we also did a media landscape. So, we looked at articles that were published from the time of the Dobbs leak through a year later, through March 2023, to better understand what is the narrative that is being told across these four countries. And as you'll hear from our partners later on the podcast today, we absolutely did see impact of the Dobbs decision across both laws, policies, legislations, and across narratives and in terms of the movement space and the funding space funding. And since we released a fact sheet—and there'll be a report coming out later this year—we also partnered with PMNCH in collaboration with Amref and Aga Khan University on a new special report that's just come out in the past week looking at the global impact of Dobbs. It's entitled "Overturning Roe v. Wade: Concerns for Accessing Sexual and Reproductive Health Services, Including Safe Abortion." And PMNCH is the largest alliance of women's, children's, and adolescent health organizations, and found that a third of respondents expected to find impact of Dobbs globally. And it's really interesting to dig through this survey and to see so many of the findings echo what you'll hear our partners talking about on the call today, which is Dobbs' impact, even though it should not and does not impact foreign assistance, does impact the way abortion legislation, service access narratives, and funding movements exist all over the world.

Jennie: It's always surprising is not the right word because like, honestly, nothing should surprise us anymore in this space. But like to see all of these ripples happening in countries around the world where, in theory, Dobbs should have no impact. And we warned that there would be one but seeing the fallout has been something different.

Bergen: Seeing the fallout definitely has been something different. But what I think is really exciting about these findings is that there are messages of hope here. When we look at Columbia, for example, and the incredible movement of the Green Wave you are gonna see messages of strength, of resistance, of strong advocacy strategies that could be utilized in different contexts. When we look at some of the, the narratives—and again, you'll hear this from our partners and then you can read about it on the fact sheet—but there are some really interesting narratives that have been done in India looking at the Dobbs decision as something that is quite negative and not to be replicated, and some really interesting conversations in the legislative body there. So, there are some real moments of hope. While Dobbs does have a global impact and does cause harm around the world, there are strategies for fighting back that I think we can look to this research and really amplify.

Jennie: I'm always excited to hear when there's hope and, like, rays of light even in the terrible.

Bergen: Yes, absolutely. Always looking for the ray of light. Thanks, Jennie!

Jennie: Well, I cannot wait to hear what your partners have to say. And let's turn to them now! Thank you, Bergen!

Ijeoma Egwuatu: Hi, I'm Ijeoma Egwuatu. My pronouns are she/her, and I'm the Director of Data, Innovation and Communications with Generation Initiative for Women and Youth Network (GIWYN), an organization based in Nigeria. Since the US Supreme Court decision overturning the right to abortion, we have seen some trickle-down impacts on laws, impacts on policies, legislation, narratives, impacts on movements here in Nigeria. For policies in Nigeria, Dobbs decision was utilized in arguments against the domestication of the guideline on safe termination of pregnancy, for legal indications in legal state. The guidelines were launched in legal state in July 2022. Shortly after the launch, anti-abortion actors mobilized against the guidelines, citing Dobbs as justification. So due to pressure from the anti-abortion actors, the legal state government directed the suspension of the guidelines merely nine days after the launch. Dobbs decision has affected movements as well because the anti-right movements in Nigeria has been emboldened by the US Court ruling, leveraging the decision to further their movements and using same strategies across countries like strategy litigation, creating a chilling effect for providers through criminalization, intimidation, and grooming young people. Even through forming wrong narratives. There is a grave concern regarding the potential decline in funding and support for international sexual and reproductive health and rights initiatives. There are concerns that Dobbs decision might impact what organizations can do or say on abortion, like the Global Gag Rule did. Dobbs decision is built upon a recent foundation of anti-abortion mobilization that originated from the US through the implementation of the Global Gag Rule. So even in Nigeria when we speak of how Dobbs decision impacts narratives. Anti-Abortion actors have deepened campaigns of misinformation and reinforced anti-abortion narratives and ideology using Dobbs as evidence to support their position. It is clear that the anti-rights actors use anti-colonial messaging to argue that abortion rights assisted reproductive technology and comprehensive sexuality education are foreign influence intended to undermine morals, cultures, and populations as part of new colonial agenda. Concurrently, anti-abortion networks also highlight the rollback of abortion rights in the US as desired parts to follow. For example, the anti-rights actors selectively adopted anti-imperialist stance to speak against the legal state guideline, utilizing the political, economic, and cultural influence of the US and emphasizing the importance of preserving African values when it is aligned with their agenda. People perceive the US and European countries as global leaders whose path should be followed for achieving development success while simultaneously harboring resentment towards colonization, natural resources extraction, and continued power imbalances. This dissonance creates an opportunity for anti-rights actors to advocate for aligning with the US on abortion following Dobbs decision. So, in order to make a headway, Nigerian government should follow these recommendations. First of all, reinstate the legal state guideline for safe termination of pregnancy on legal indications and adopt the guideline in other states in Nigeria because this guideline would give people more flexibility for accessing safe abortion and provide a clear national protocol to healthcare providers, thereby preventing unnecessary harm to women's health. The government of Nigeria should also strengthen capacities of health providers to use the guidelines in the provision of safe and legal abortion, including providing abortion values clarification and attitude transformation workshop. The government should ensure that health service providers are not harassed and arrested in the course of providing safe abortion services. They should expand grounds for accessing safe abortion to include rape and incest. Civil society organizations should push forward to implement strategies to disseminate information to the general public on the implication of the ruling to combat misinformation, remove barriers to access, and fight social stigma. Civil society organizations should also capitalize on global moments in sexual reproductive health, rights, and justice, regardless of whatever they represent—gains or losses—to cultivate support for reproductive justice. Funders, on the other hand, should make headway to increase funding for feminist initiatives, driving narrative change to support sexual reproductive health rights and justice. Recognizing the influence of public narrative on policy. Funders should ensure that reproductive health financing should include commodities for reducing unsafe abortion. Funders should support national feminist organization with sustained funding to monitor the anti-rights movements and develop effective strategies for resisting opposition and advancing a feminist intersectional sexual reproductive health rights and justice agenda.

Daniel Arango: Hi, I am Daniel Arango, my pronouns are he/him, and I'm a principal research associate at Fundación Oriéntame, a nonprofit organization based in Bogota, Columbia. The US Supreme Court decision overturning the right to abortion came at a particular time in Columbia. Just a few months before Dobbs, on February 21st, 2022, the constitutional of Columbia decriminalized abortion up to 24 weeks of pregnancy and maintained the three exceptions beyond that gestational age, making Columbia the country with the most progressive legal framework in Latin America. This atmosphere of joy overshadowed the news of the overturning of Roe v. Wade as the country was still ecstatic about the historic victory achieved by the feminist movement and the advances made by the Green Wave in the region. However, this is not to say that Dobbs didn't have an impact in Columbia. The overturn of legislation that had been in place for nearly 50 years encouraged the anti-rights movement and conservative groups to continue their endeavor with restored strengths. Dobbs has also motivated unlikely alliances such as that of the Catholic and Evangelical churches, which decided to become more involved in politics by working side by side with right-wing politicians to promote their regressive agenda, including opposition to abortion and the banning of sex education from schools and LGBTQI rights, which they see as a threat to the moral foundations of Columbia society. The process of discussion and approval of the new in the constitutional court also reveal coordinated tactics of the anti-rights movement that have been copied from methods used in the US to overturn Roe v. Wade. The sending of thousands of emails and requests aim at delaying the decision—which took the court more than 500 days to make—was just one of them and shows the level of international cooperation of these groups. Despite the new ruling, barriers persist in women's access to safe abortion in Columbia. Barriers include lack of awareness of the new ruling, restrictive interpretation of legal framework by providers, and failures in the provision to inadequate staffing to medication or poor infrastructure. In addition, social stigma continues remain significant in the country, leaving women to continue to seek out illegal providers just to avoid being seen entering an abortion clinic. With this overview of the situation in Columbia, some of the recommendations for the Columbian government include implementing strategies to disseminate information to the public about the implications of the ruling to combat misinformation, remove barriers to access and fight social stigma and educating service providers about the legal and technical implications of the ruling, as well as the latest technical regulations and best practices for carrying out the procedures safely.

Sharon Vilegwa: Hi, I'm Sharon Vilegwa, pronouns she/her, I work as a policy and advocacy lead at KAMANEH, an organization based in Kenya that deals with reproductive, maternal, newborn child and adolescent health. Now, since the Supreme Court’s decision in Dobbs v. Jackson in the US, here in Kenya, we have seen an upsurge of misinformation and negative narrative surrounding abortion to the delight of the opposition, of course In particular, we have seen that the common wananchi, what we call common man here in Kenya, been to believe that abortion has been completely banned in the US. And so, having not interacted with the judgment because the common man in Kenya does not, would not read the judgment, the full judgment in Dobbs v. Jackson, the narrative is that if the US—being a progressive country in terms of rights—can actually ban abortion, it means that they have noticed something or they have noticed the error in their ways. And so, we as Kenya should also look towards banning the same, banning abortion in Kenya. So, that is the narrative that's making its rounds. And of course, the underlying reason is that perhaps they realize it's murder and all those negative connotations that follow abortion. And the effect of that also is that last year we had a very progressive judgment in what we call the Malindi case. And in the Malindi case, the judge actually referenced Roe v. Wade. And even though he referenced it in a very linear manner, in terms of privacy laws, the narrative that is being run in the country right now is that that judgment, the Malindi judgment should be considered bad because it's based on a precedent that has since been overturned. This is despite the fact that the judgment actually referenced our own constitution and our other laws that are still in place. And so, you find that with this misinformation making its way around the country, there's gonna be more ripple effects. For example, Kisumu, which is where we're based in some policy makers have actually contemplated and toyed with the idea of removing unsafe abortion as one of the key courses of maternal deaths. This came out in our research that we just concluded. And so, you can see that even though it's a few policy makers thinking of the same, this is gonna be having a ripple effect. And even though the safe abortion is actually quite guarded in our constitution there's that apprehension that perhaps now with Dobbs v Jackson, that some people are actually working towards reviewing the article in our constitution that actually provides for safe abortion. And so it's a worrying trend and it's a trend that we need, we really need to nip in the bud and really need to strategize going forward. And so with that, I would have some recommendations. I would start with us as civil society. We need to have a common strategy in our country especially. And the reason for that is that we have some low lying fruits that we can really take advantage of if we come together. The first one would be that we need to push for the reinstatement of the standard and guidelines on reducing maternal mortality and morbidity in the country. These were reinstated by the court, officially reinstated by a judgment of the court. However, the government has yet to formally reinstate them. It's a low fruit. We already have a win by the court. And so this is something that we should look towards pushing for. This will in turn have an effect of mitigating some of the narratives that we're having in terms of the Dobbs v Jackson from the US. The other thing that I feel as civil society do is sensitize healthcare providers to understand exactly what the article in our own constitution says because the information that they're now having is based on Dobbs v Jackson, that abortion has been completely banned in the US and even in Kenya now. Abortion is being looked at in terms of being completely illegal. So, let's be there to sensitize our own healthcare providers to avoid this arrests and harassments that we've been seeing by the police, and to make sure that they have the correct information as to where our laws actually stand. And for the civil society organizations in the US and to the government of the US, I would say that it's time we nipped the false narratives in the bud. Other countries are believing that the US has completely banned abortion because they have suddenly realized, or they have suddenly found moral, if may put it that way, moral compass or other realized negative effects. So, I feel that it's for the government and the civil societies that really put out the correct position and the correct effects of the judgment in Dobbs v. Jackson to other countries around the world so that the other countries are understanding that it is not that the US has completely banned abortion in the country. Kindly help propagate the actual position. To our government, I would recommend that they review the productive health policy. This was a policy passed last year, and it's to last us for the next 10 years. That is up to 2032. And this policy actually does not acknowledge or does not speak much access to safe abortion despite the fact it's in our constitution currently. And so, we need the government to actually acknowledge that our laws permit for safe abortion in certain circumstances and to provide for that end of the policy and also need the government to look into the financing of reproductive health. Most of the commodities and reproductive health are adults. What this means is that the government purchases other medicine, other commodities and reproductive health commodities are an addition, or as a plus one to the purchase. And so the government should look towards actually financing commodities or having, making sure there's access to commodities for reproductive health in all facilities to actually actualize what is in our constitution in terms of reproductive health rights. And so with this, I can say I'm super grateful that our constitution actually has given us that safeguard to have safe abortion actually allowed in the country under circumstances. And despite Dobbs v Jackson, we have that safety net, but it's not time for us to relax. We still need to make sure first that the right as enshrined in our constitution is actualized, and to ensure that we're not blindly following the narratives or the misinformation that is being pushed by the opposition in terms of going back and regressing in our access to safe abortion y being influenced by the decision in Dobbs v Jackson. And thus, I would urge that they keep funding, especially movements or organizations that are coming together to monitor the opposition so that we're not always reacting to what is happening, but we're also coming together to just strategize and have our own plan on how to safeguard reproductive health rights. And also I would urge that the funders take the time to understand the context of different countries. Different countries are at different places in terms of reproductive health and in terms of fighting for abortion. And so, what works in one country, not working another country. And so when funders have their objectives, they should have the context of the country in mind and fund proposals based on the context of the different countries in order to achieve great results. And also to realize that abortion, especially here in Kenya as a topic itself cannot encouraged or it's not well received on its own and it needs the whole of the reproductive health approach. And so when they're looking to funds, they should have that in mind and consider that. And that way I feel that we're results in understanding here we've understood our communities and where we are responding to the contexts in the community.

Dr. Souvik Pyne: Hi I'm Souvik, my pronouns are he and him, and I'm from India. Since our US Supreme Court decision overturning the right to abortion, we've seen some significant ripple effects in our country, too. As a background, India's abortion law do not right centric. It's relatively progressive compared to many other countries. And in 2021, it underwent an amendment. Many media outlets used the US Supreme Court decision to present India as taking a much progressive path in sharp contrast to what USA was heading towards. And in the process, foregrounding a lot of nationalistic ferver. But in actual practice, despite absence of any major political opposition to abortion, the Indian government has always had a limited focus on promoting safe abortion as a key health service. Moreover, misdirected aggressive public campaigning around sex determination has unwittingly demonized abortion instead of addressing the underlying societal son preference. And all of this has created a purported impression that induced abortions in the country are predominantly due to sex selective reasons, which it’s actually not. Alongside considerable indoctrination of many civil society organizations, development partners for rallying behind this misdirection leads to negative impact on access to safe abortion. In such a context the overturning of Roe v. Wade judgment has inadvertently lend [inaudible] to anti-choice entities to ramp up their efforts towards propagating their insidious agenda. Anti-Choice actors have started organizing protest marches against abortion titled as March for Life in different parts of India and has been using the anniversary of the Abortion Act in India center-stage such protests. They have been observing International Day of the Unborn Child. Some entities are also co-opting human rights language and misinterpreting data to advance their arguments. Similar kind of narratives are also being propagated heavily using media platforms, using social media as well. They have used the Dobbs judgment more like an inspiration for replicating similar kind of an outcome in India, eventually. So, these entities have been also attempting to use strategic litigation to challenge abortion law in the country. The anti-choice groups are also targeting a wide range of people, which includes school students, other young people, even professionals like doctors and even lawyers. Young people are being inducted on anti-abortion stances as a part of some leadership building workshops. So, all such actions might be of minimal impact in the larger context currently. And also admitting that in some forms, such activities have always existed even prior to the Dobbs judgment as well. However, the efforts are clearly on the rise post the Dobbs judgment and yeah, and all this may be just the tip of the iceberg, what we're observing. So, while overturning of Roe v. Wade in USA may have limited direct impact in India, it's certainly emboldened the anti-choice actors in the country and also being supported heavily by their overseas counterparts. So, we as entities working on abortion need to be more vigilant, undertake opposition monitoring, and build more solidarity across movements and spaces to protect access to safe abortion and establish it as an undeniable right for everyone.

Jennie: Okay, y'all, I hope you enjoyed this episode. It was a little different than from what we normally do, but I thought it was really important that we hear from people on the ground in those countries to tell you what they are seeing. I am, again, so grateful to all of you. So grateful to Rachel and Elena and Meg and everyone who has been so supportive. I just- there has been so much love and support in this community for this podcast that it just makes me so happy. So, thank you all. And for the first time, I'll see y'all next week! [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprofightback.com. Thanks all!