Lauren Rankin on her New Book, Bodies on the Line: At the Front Lines of the Fight to Protect Abortion in America

Starting in the late 1970s, people have been serving as clinic escorts at abortion clinics, guarding and protecting patients from anti-abortion protestors. Since then, volunteer clinic escorts have devised several strategies for making sure patients access the care they need and continue to use their bodies as shields against anti-abortion protestors every day. Lauren Rankin, writer, consultant, and author of Bodies on the Line, sits down to talk with us about the history of clinic escorting and the continued need for such a vital community-based practice. 

Anti-abortion protestors often camp out in front of abortion clinics, where they harass, threaten, and attempt to coerce those who are attending appointments. Clinic escorting has often involved walking the patient to the door, standing between a patient and a protestor, and calming a patient through conversation.  

Unfortunately, the federal government has shown time and time again that meaningful abortion protections will be challenging to pass. But there is hope—you can push local elected officials in your community to recognize the importance of abortion care.

Find Lauren Rankin’s book at your local bookstore or on bookshop.org

Links from this episode

Bodies on the Line
Lauren Rankin on Twitter
The Clinic Vest Project
Washington Area Clinic Defense Task Force
Plan C
Abortionfinder.org
Ineedana.com
Repro Legal Helpline
Repro Legal Defense Fund
Digital Defense Fund

Take Action

Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to RePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health rights and justice. [music intro]

Read More

Hi, RePROs! How's everybody doing? I'm your host Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, there is good news going around! And in the world of repro, that feels a little few and far in between, so let's take some time to just, like, revel in some good news. So, if you're listening to this episode, the day it came out yesterday, Wisconsin Planned Parenthood started performing abortions in Wisconsin again. And that is such amazing news! As a Wisconsinite, I'm very excited for my home state to have access to abortion care. I will caveat it with, it's kind of limited in the fact that the Planned Parenthoods that provide abortion are in the southern part of the state, so it does mean that there are still large swaths of the state without access. But this is a huge step forward. It is making sure that people don't have to travel quite as far and people in Wisconsin are able to get the care they need. I'm very excited for my home state and hopefully we'll see some more access become available. Let's see. The next big win is the Mexican Supreme Court decriminalized abortion, which is a huge win. So, so exciting. Again, it doesn't mean that there is gonna be access everywhere, all of a sudden—there's still a lot of work to be done—but it is a huge step in the right direction and ensuring that people will be able to get access to the care they need. I'm just so happy for all of the advocates who fought so hard to make this happen. They did so much work, and it is just very exciting to see this going forward. It is just really wonderful to continue to watch the Green Wave continue to roll on. I'm so happy with good news, seeing access to abortion, expand in Mexico and in Wisconsin. Let's see here. I am having a bit of mixed feelings right now as you're hearing this. This is a coworker's last day with our organization. Bridget has just been a wonderful colleague and friend, and y'all may remember her. She was on the podcast earlier this spring to talk about a report she worked on called Connecting the Dots, focusing on connecting gender equity and SRHR. She has been a wonderful researcher. That report was a wonderful report. She has done other wonderful reports for our organization. Really gonna miss having her around and having a friend at work. It's just very, very sad to see her go. But super excited. She's working on a PhD and y'all, Bridget was a pretty badass researcher to begin with and has done such amazing work. And with a PhD and all of this great experience she's gonna gain, she is gonna be unstoppable and I cannot wait to see what she accomplishes and how bright she shines because y'all, she's amazing. I'm really excited to see what she's gonna do, but very sad to see her go. I've been very, very lucky to be able to call her a colleague for, I don't know, five years. And more importantly to have her as a friend. And I am just very sad to not be working with her every day, but I know our friendship will last far beyond her time at work. So, congratulations, Bridget! We're gonna miss you. But I cannot wait to see what you do next. And then last, just a little bit of housekeeping, y'all. We are starting a newsletter! We are gonna be sending out emails when each new episode comes out, so that way you never miss an episode. So, if you wanna sign up to our newsletter, you can go to our website at reprofightback.com. When you get there, there should be a popup box where you can sign up for our newsletter. Sometimes it takes a second for it to pop up. Otherwise if you scroll to the bottom of the page, you can also sign up there. The first 500 people who sign up for our new newsletter get some really fun Liberal Jane stickers we had designed and a postcard that we had her design. So, make sure to sign up quickly so that you can get the fun stickers and the postcard. And also if you sign up this week, we have some big news that we're gonna be announcing. So if you sign up, you'll be among the very first to know. So, go to reprosfightback.com. There should be a popup box that comes up where you can sign up to get our new newsletter to make sure you never miss an episode when it comes out. And you'll get fun stickers and a postcard. Y'all, there are no words for how much I love these stickers. Liberal Jane put my cats in some of them. They are amazing and I cannot wait for you all to see them! So yeah, sign up, get stickers and make sure you don't miss an episode. With that, let's turn to this week's episode. I'm very excited to have on Lauren Rankin, she's a writer and an advocate and we are having her on to talk about her book Bodies on the Line. And we are gonna be talking about clinic escorts and, you know, what are they, how can you become one, everything in between. So with that, let's turn to my interview with Lauren. Hi Lauren! Thank you so much for being here.

Lauren: I'm so glad to be here. It's been like a zillion years.

Jennie: I know. I was just thinking, I feel like you were here for-

Lauren: It was the end of 2019.

Jennie: Maybe the 20- okay, I was trying to decide if it was the 2019-year review or 2018.

Lauren: It was, it was right before I moved to Colorado from New York and right before the pandemic.

Jennie: Right. So wild. It, yeah. Again, the grasp of like time and like-

Lauren: It's all gone.

Jennie: It's gone.

Lauren: We're here. We made it. [laughs]

Jennie: Yeah. Like this- I've been doing the podcast for almost six years now. I don't know how that happened.

Lauren: That's wild.

Jennie: Right? Anywho, before we just start chatting—because I'm also notorious for doing that—would you like to introduce yourself and include your pronouns?

Lauren: Yes. So, I'm Lauren Rankin. I'm a writer and consultant. I like to call myself a professional abortion fangirl. And my pronouns are she and her.

Jennie: So, I am so excited to have you on here to talk about your book!

Lauren: I know.

Jennie: I'm a big reader, so people who, like, write books, it's like magic.

Lauren: [Laughs] That or delusion. It's one of the two.

Jennie: Well, okay. Maybe they go together?

Lauren: Yes, [laughs] they do.

Jennie: So, the book is amazing.

Lauren: Thank you.

Jennie: And everybody should read it. It's called Bodies on the Line. So, I guess before we talk about clinic escorts, which is like a focus of the book, maybe we need to like, take a little step back and talk about why we need clinic escorts and, like, a little bit of that history, because I feel like we've talked about like violence at clinics, but maybe not like the history and some of the stuff that came before.

Lauren: Yeah. That was such a crucial part of this book process for me was kind of unearthing some of that archival and activist history. And the earliest I can find reference to clinic escorts was in Fort Wayne, Indiana in the late seventies. So, basically as soon as Roe vs. Wade was decided, a bunch of people got pissed off. And didn't really know, they didn't really have a cohesive movement at the time. Evangelicals were not on the anti-abortion train until they realized they could use it as a sort of cudgel to oppose school desegregation. And the Catholic church hadn't really rallied yet around it. But by 1977—in 1976, we had the Hyde Amendment, which bars federal funding for abortion care—and really by the late seventies, that was when we saw the beginning of protests at clinics. Joseph Scheidler, who many people probably know kind of pioneered what they call sidewalk counseling, which is really just getting up in your face and being extremely rude-

Jennie: Ugh.

Lauren: -and harassing and sometimes, like, overtly threatening. And clinics were kind of under siege. They didn't expect this, they didn't prepare for it. I mean, why would you, so this little ragtag group of locals in Fort Wayne got together and were like, "hey, this, this is kind of not okay." And they just- they had no idea what they were doing. I mean, no idea what they were doing, but they just decided they wanted to be out front and wanted to be able to be supportive of people who were coming in and trying to deflect. And, you know, as the seventies became the eighties and Joseph Scheidler's little mentee Randall Terry founded Operation Rescue and clinics became literal sites of sieges, of intense mass blockades, clinic escorts kind of took on an outsized role for volunteers. They really kind of became the frontline of defense for keeping clinics open. And you know, that's changed a lot over the decades and how that's looked. But they've been there pretty much since the beginning. And it was really surprising when I found out how kind of early and entrenched that that became at the local level.

Jennie: Yeah. I definitely didn't realize, like back to the seventies, right? Like, it seemed much more recent than it actually was.

Lauren: Yeah. And the first sit-in, or they use the phrase "sit-in," I don't like that because that's civil rights language, but the first

Jennie: They love stealing civil rights language.

Lauren: They do. That is, that's a highlight. But the first in-person...I guess we'll call, like, refusal-to-leave protest was at a clinic in Rockville, Maryland in 1975. So, this is, you know, this is nearly 50 years of people showing up and being jackasses at clinics. Can I swear?

Jennie: Yes.

Lauren: That's great.

Jennie: Yeah. I really think it's important because I think a lot of people may not be as familiar with a lot of the violence that happened in the eighties and nineties.

Lauren: Yeah.

Jennie: And that was, I mean, it was so huge back then.

Lauren: It was, it was really...the proportions of what the protests look like are kind of unimaginable to us now. Even those who are very familiar with clinic protests, clinic escorts, we're talking thousands of people potentially outside a clinic, not just even standing there peacefully singing. Some of them have chained themselves to the doors. Some have pulled trucks filled with giant concrete blocks up right in front of the clinic door. Some are throwing themselves on cars. It was just pandemonium, and it was designed to be. And they really took- Operation Rescue took full advantage of the disparity in local law enforcement versus federal law enforcement because most local police departments were like, "I don't know what this is, I don't know how to deal with this," and had to one-by-one remove people. So, if you're one by one removing 2000 people, that's gonna take a while.

Jennie: And then they win, right? Because like, that's the point. It shut down clinics.

Lauren: Exactly. It shut down clinics. And talking to some volunteers who were doing that work back in the day, they had to think of things that sound just absolutely absurd to me. Like one in Ann Arbor described, they realized that the clinic was fully blockaded in the front and the back. So, they managed to find a window at ground level into the clinic that they could open and sort of form this little barrier around. And patients had to like shimmy through this small window. I mean, that's just insane. That's absolutely mind boggling. But that's what, that was the only way that clinic was gonna be open that day. And that's the only way those patients were gonna get in there. And, you know, they made it happen. So I think it's a reminder to all of us of how—on the one hand, how far we've come and also the levels to which everyday people have to go to make things that just seem like basic accessible healthcare actually accessible.

Jennie: Yeah. I think that was like one of the things that really stood out was like the determination of the people on the ground at the clinics-

Lauren: Yeah.

Jennie: -to make sure that everyone who needed care was able to- they were able to get as many people in as possible and finding new and creative ways to counter everything that they were seeing.

Lauren: Yeah, I mean, first of all, the idea of like, "hey, let's open this window and just shuttle people" in there is wild. But there was also, you know, talking about physically having, like, linking arms with other clinic escorts and trying to form this sort of barrier where they're playing literal Red Rover with Operation Rescue people who were just trying to charge through them. People, you know, feeling like they've been choked by protestors who are trying- it was a physical battle, it was a physical battle a lot of the time. And that is not something that I can relate to on a personal level. I've never experienced that outside of a clinic I don't think most escorts have who are doing this now. And it just gave me kind of another- a even greater sense of appreciation for these people who were not paid to do this. And just showed up out of the goodness of their heart.

Jennie: So, now that we have a little bit of that background, what do clinic escorts do? We talked a little bit about kind of that history but what does it look like?

Lauren: Originally, as far as I can tell, clinic escorts were a very ad hoc, just like in the neighborhood or part of maybe a National Organization for Women consciousness raising group or something like that. And it was really just show up at the clinic and see what needs to be done and they really didn't know. But by the time Operation Rescue came onto the scene in the mid-eighties and became very militant and diligent about trying to shut down clinics, clinic escorting, which until then had really been like, I'm gonna just try and walk with this patient and keep a little bubble around them. I mean, it really became clinic defense, which was "how do we use our bodies and our numbers to keep clinics open?" That meant forming chains with your, you know, linked in arms with other people. It meant sometimes like- one group told me they all one time held some hardware store or something donated wooden little pieces of like wooden planks and they would hold them like they were making a fence. You know, it became like keep the clinic open and keep Operation Rescue from getting into the clinic that sometimes meant showing up at 3:00 AM, 4:00 AM to beat Operation Rescue to a site. And that really ended in 1994 when the FACE Act, the federal access to Clinic Entrances Act became law, which made it a felony with some hefty punishments up to 10 years in prison, a significant amount of financial payment. And Operation Rescue basically stopped doing that. They weren't able to do it anymore. It was too expensive, it was too onerous. But, you know, antis are antis and [laugh] always find a way. And so it sort of morphed into the 2000s and into what we know a bit more as clinic protests now, which is much more individually focused, harassing the patient following patients. And so, clinic escorting had to adapt too. And it's really kind of become a non-engagement means of supporting the patient, getting them into the door safely, helping them know they're not alone, you're not- most don't engage with protestors. And it's really just meant to be kind of an extension of the defensive line of the clinic. And it's still a volunteer position. No one gets paid to do this. And there's no overarching organization or, like, consortium of clinic escorts. It's not like we have a place that we meet every year. It's very much, like, your clinic, your community. And I love that. It's the local responding to the local in a lot of ways.

Jennie: I just think of what an important role they play as patients are coming, in whatever state they're in, if they're happy to be there you know, whatever, and having to face these protesters. To have somebody with you who is able to like, be there focused on you and making sure that hopefully you're keeping the protesters away, they have something to focus on beside the protesters, like I just imagine being that person and like how much, how grateful I would be to have somebody in that moment.

Lauren: Yeah. And in my experience, there are some patients who do not want you to walk them in. And it's really important that a clinic escort understands you're there to serve what the patient needs. It's not about this broader fight in that moment. It's really what that person wants. And some patients don't want you to walk with them, but others are- I've experienced some who are just like paralyzed by fear. You don't know who these random men—and they're usually men cis men I should say—standing outside of clinics screaming at the top of their lungs. They don't know who they are, they don't know what they're gonna do. It would be alarming enough walking down a street and just hearing people yelling. Now these people are yelling at you for this specific reason, for a thing that you might not already feel that great about having to do for whatever reason. Or even if you do, it might have been a pain in the ass to get there. Who knows. And so, some become really paralyzed by fear. They're afraid these people are gonna hit them, they're gonna hurt them, they're gonna take them. And those fears are not entirely unfounded either. So, it's really the escort's job to meet that person where they are emotionally. And sometimes that means being like, "hey, I love your shoes. Those are really cool." Oh, you're wearing a Yankees hat. Like, I hate the Yankees. Ha ha ha" Whatever it is. Some way of engaging them. Some don't want that at all either. You have to kind of be, it's like a social worker and a security guard at the same time. It's a really unique experience.

Jennie: Yeah. I just, it's been really interesting, like watching all of this play out with, you know, when you talk about it in your book with the buffer zone things where- you know, that was a way to help protect clinics. And then the Supreme Court struck down some of the buffer zones, like...

Lauren: Yeah, what you're getting at here is there really, and this was the thing that leapt out at me writing this book, mostly, which was the utter failure of the federal government to really do anything. It's been nearly 30 years since the FACE Act and we haven't had a single piece of proactive legislation advance in both chambers of Congress. It's just nothing. And buffer zones kind of became a local or a state solution to that problem, mandating that, "okay, so you have a constitutional right to protest, but you cannot get within x, y, z number of feet because you're blocking someone's constitutional right to access healthcare to freely move about the world." And some, I mean, the one I had at my clinic was only eight feet, but it was very helpful, even eight feet. And that took on a new meaning for me during the early days of the pandemic where like if somebody got within six feet of me, I would've immediately felt anxious and threatened and confused. We're supposed to be this distance away from each other. And it's not that far, but it's enough to make you feel like you have a sphere of protection and that's really what buffer zones are designed to do. Then, of course, in 2014, the Supreme Court—and this was before the Supreme Court went off the complete proverbial deep end—but they struck down...Massachusetts had a 35-foot buffer zone, which just sounds like a dream. Sounds ideal, frankly. And they struck that down as unconstitutional. So, anything that was 35 feet or more basically it immediately was done. But the eight-foot zone at my old clinic is still in effect. We'll see how far those go because you know, antis have deep pockets and are willing to bring suit and this court is trash.

Jennie: All within their very safe buffer zone for protesting.

Lauren: Correct. Exactly. They have what, a hundred feet of a buffer zone or something.

Jennie: And they are real strict about it. Like, I was-

Lauren: Must be nice.

Jennie: From a rally in front of the court and my office was on the other side and literally had the sign folded and like carrying it to throw it away in the office. And they were like, no, back up. You have to like get- I couldn't take the path I was taking. I had to move to take the outer sidewalk.

Lauren: Must be nice. Must be nice.

Jennie: [Sigh] Yeah.

Lauren: Well, and buffer zones are like a solution, but they're not, you know, the solution. We need something really comprehensive and holistic and we're not gonna get that anytime soon.

Jennie: And there went my notebook.

Lauren: [Laughs] That was a good catch.

Jennie: She's lucky she's cute. And I think the other thing that, that really struck me in your book that I think maybe some people aren't as familiar with is the interaction between the local police and the clinics. And I found that was very striking and severely problematic.

Lauren: Yes. Yeah. I wrote the second chapter of the book, I think is titled, "I Fought the Law and the Law Won," which is sort of exploring that relationship in a lot of ways. And I wrote that chapter explicitly because I knew—not in this interview, because you know what's what—but interviews with like NPR-

Jennie: Why didn't you call the police?

Lauren: Why wouldn't you call the police? I knew I was gonna get that question over and over again. And the answer is, first of all, many times we have, over the years, over the decades, clinic escorts, clinic staff have called the police. Hundreds of times about things small, big, even in Fort Wayne, they called about a bomb threat. And the police in Fort Wayne were, like, we don't really wanna deal with that. And, and made the staff look for the potential bomb themselves. Thankfully, there wasn't one. But it's also just even beyond that, a lot of local law enforcement is outright hostile. Some of them also oppose abortion. The people standing outside protesting at clinics might be their friends from church. At the very least, most are at least annoyed by this. They think it's beneath them. This is what I heard time and again from escorts. They think it's beneath them. They think it's not their job. They think this is stupid or silly. And I had my own experience with this. There was a protester at my clinic who kept filming patients really up close in their face. And so, I would put my hand up in front of the camera to block him so that when we got by the door, he couldn't get their face on camera, and he didn't like that. "I Was infringing on his rights." So, he called the police and claimed that I had smacked his camera and broken it. Which is funny because you have footage that shows that none of that has happened. But we're gonna put that over here.

Jennie: Details [inaudible] facts.

Lauren: Yeah. [laughs] And the police came, and they wanted to take a- they had to take a whole report and they asked me for my home address, and I said, you know, I'm not comfortable giving my home address. This is a public record and that means that any abortion opponent could get my address. Can I please just list the clinic? And this police officer was emphatic like, no, it has to be your home address. And I was getting really frantic. I was like, I'm not putting my home address on this. I'm not doing that.

Jennie: People have been killed. I'm not giving my address.

Lauren: Exactly. And he said to me, well, that's your own problem. You should have thought about that before you came out here. Ultimately, one of our escorts was a lawyer. And she's like, yeah, this isn't happening. She's putting the clinic down. But that attitude of "you're part of the problem,” towards clinic escorts is really, unfortunately very pervasive. And so, what are you supposed to do? Also, if you call the cops for something that might signal to any person who is there, maybe a clinic escort who's black or brown, undocumented, I don't know, a patient who's black, brown, undocumented, a cop does not signalize safety to these folks. It's a symbol of potential trouble. Potentially life-threatening trouble. And we have to be so much more thoughtful about the way we deal with that. And I also understand, like, clinic staff or if someone calls and says they're gonna shoot up the place, what are you supposed to do? You have to call the police. What's the alternative? But for quotidian things like breaking the buffer zone law or getting in a patient's face and technically breaking federal law, you call the police and then what? They're like, "don't do that again." And then they leave. It's not gonna create the culture change and that feeling of safety that you need outside of a clinic. It just doesn't work.

Jennie: So, one of the things you talked about was the lack of anything, any new federal legislation since the FACE Act.

Lauren: Yeah.

Jennie: So, like what do we need to happen to ensure access?

Lauren: Like a revolution?

Jennie: It's, like, real easy, right?

Lauren: [Laughs, sighs]

Jennie: Just like, can you just gimme the like one, two point plan? Like, the silver bullet.

Lauren: I got it, I got it. Well, of course I should also say I wrote this book and it came out in the months before Roe versus Wade was overturned. So, the challenge- we most of us assumed that was coming, but the challenges...

Jennie: But like, not like two months after your book came out, right? Like that?

Lauren: Yeah. Yes. That timing of that was interesting. But the challenges have become much bigger in terms of...it's not just now about protecting the clinics that exist, but, like, how do we actually get people out of like vast swaths of the country into other swaths of the country to have care? How do we potentially work to legalize abortion where it's been banned? And these are- the challenges have become much more onerous. I believe this change is not going to come from the federal government. That being said, it would be great if they could actually pass something that at the very least codifies Roe vs. Wade and legalizes abortion everywhere. That would be a start. That isn't gonna happen. And I don't mean that there aren't people who care very much in the federal government about this. There are, there absolutely are. There are senators, there are representatives like, I believe Joe Biden would sign that. That's not the issue. It's just not gonna happen with this Congress. It's not. And for...I think what I took away most from writing this book is we need to stop waiting for these people to do that. Every positive step forward we've received for abortion—when it became a piece of legislation or the Roe vs. Wade ruling or whatever—happened because people set that in motion on the ground. And I think for access right now, it's gotta be what are you willing to do? How far are you willing to go? That's what all these people in this book ask themselves. And Joe Manchin is not gonna sign your bill. He is not gonna do it. He’s not gonna sign on to that. And it's absolute- it's understandable, but it's shortsighted to put all of our eggs in the federal-government-can-save-us-basket because that isn't going to happen anytime soon. So instead you should be pushing, if you live in a state where abortion is banned, but you live in a big city that has, you know, more liberal elected officials push them to try and have their prosecutors in the city absolutely vow, they will not cooperate with the prosecution of anyone aiding, abetting, leaving the state for an abortion or self-managing an abortion. If you live in a state where abortion is legal and you live near a clinic, now would be a great time to become a clinic escort if you want to. Even just pushing at the local level is...that's how I believe change is gonna happen. I do not believe that change is going to happen because we passed some huge sweeping federal law. I think eventually, hopefully we will. And what I would like to see in that is never, is probably not gonna happen either, which is, like, abortion should be free. It should be covered fully by every healthcare plan. It should be...you should be able to access it at home. You should be at your local hospital, at freestanding clinics, anywhere. But instead, in this moment of real crisis, I think there's much more power that comes from, instead of asking ourselves, "God, when are they gonna do something?" Asking ourselves, "okay, what can I do?" Like that's where the power comes.

Jennie: So perfect segue, like, I always love to end the episode asking what can the audience do? But I thought maybe for this episode we would, like, tweak that a little bit and go: if people are interested in becoming clinic escorts, like what, what do they need to do to make that happen? Because it's not necessarily just, you don't just show up at the clinic, right? Like, so-

Lauren: Yeah, don't do that. [laughs]

Jennie: Right. So, what should people do if they're interested in becoming an escort?

Lauren: Great question. So, if you live in a state where abortion is still legal, that means you have hopefully some clinics. There are states like Wyoming that only really have one procedural provider. But what you can do to become a clinic escort is you can contact the clinic. If you don't know of anyone in your sphere who might be plugged in, contact the clinic, call them. Say I live in the area, I'm interested in becoming a clinic escort. That's how my clinic escort team got started. Two women who had no idea who each other were randomly called the clinic after a newspaper article and were like, "hey, we wanna be clinic escorts." And the clinic was like, "we don't know what that is, we don't have that, but if you two wanna talk or whatever," and they connected and they created this group that now has, like, 200 people. So, if the clinic doesn't have an escort group, can you do that? Can you set that up? Can you start that? And then like ask for help. There are so many organizations like the Clinic Vest Project, the Washington Area Clinic Defense Task Force that have resources that are- the Clinic Vest Project donates free vests everywhere so you don't have to pay for those. And they'll help you learn how to do this. And maybe you're like, I don't know if I have it in me to be able to stand- I don't actually know if I could clinic escort anymore, frankly. I haven't done it since I moved. And now I feel like I might just be a little too quick to the punch. You have to be, you have to be very patient and I'm not anymore. So, maybe there's something else you can do. Maybe you wanna get involved with an abortion fund, maybe you want too you know, get involved...like contact the fund near you, period, point blank and ask them what they need. But maybe you can start driving for them, like driving patients. Maybe you can provide childcare. Those things seem really small and if you step back and you're thinking about how do I create a culture change? Like how do I create a wave of change and abortion? That's going to seem pretty futile, but it really isn't. It isn't futile to that person that you have.

Jennie: I was just gonna say, like-

Lauren: That means-

Jennie: It's never small to them.

Lauren: Yes. That's- and that kind of looking at this work from a different lens of like, how do we get big laws passed? Like, that's somebody else's job. I'm not interested and that's a valid job, but like on an individual level, how can you make one person's stay a little easier who's having an abortion? That really does have a powerful impact. And I believe in it. I believe in that as the path towards change.

Jennie: Lauren, thank you so much for being here. Y'all, definitely check out Lauren's book, Bodies on the Line! Thank you.

Lauren: Thank you so much, Jennie.

Jennie: Okay y'all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Lauren. I had a wonderful time talking to her all about clinic escorts. And then real quick, just a reminder to sign up for our email newsletter. You can sign up at our website, reprosfightback.com. You'll get fun stickers and a postcard from Liberal Jane and you'll be the first to find some really exciting news that we are announcing this week. So, sign up for the newsletter and I will see you all soon. Bye! [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprofightback.com. Thanks all!