The Election’s Devastating Impact on Reproductive Health and Rights

The November election will undoubtedly send sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice (SRHRJ) spiraling. Erin Matson, Co-Founder, President, and CEO of Reproaction, sits down to talk with us about the devastating consequences of a second Trump administration and what actions can be taken now before inauguration day.

Top of mind is the implementation of Project 2025 and the Life at Conception Act, which would institute federal fetal personhood and override state law to act as a federal abortion ban. It would also ban contraception, invitro fertilization (IVF), and fertility treatment. There is also a likelihood that pregnancy criminalization will increase and attacks to the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) and the abortion pill, mifepristone, will increase. Mass application of the Comstock Act, a 150-year-old-law that could ban mailing of the abortion pill and the gutting of regulatory agencies are also on the table. There are some protective actions the Biden administration can take before January. You can also find additional ways to take personal action in our Take Action section.

Links from this episode

Reproaction on X
Reproaction on Facebook
How The Supreme Court Could Endanger Access to Emergency Abortion Care
Emergency Pod: Explaining the Chaos of the Recent Mifepristone Rulings
The 150-Year-Old Law that Could Impact Abortion Pill Access Today
Project 2025 is a Road Map to a Conservative United States. Here’s What You Need to Know.

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro]

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How's everybody doing? I'm your host Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, I have some very exciting news to share. I think I talked to y'all before that rePROs was nominated for two awards in the Anthem Awards and those honor mission-driven work. So I am very, very, very excited to say that rePROs won in two categories. We won a gold in the podcast and audio category for diversity, equity, and inclusion, and a silver in the podcast and audio category for human and civil rights. And y'all, I am really just overwhelmed by this. This year has been unreal, to say the least. Over the course of the year, rePROs has won six awards. And, you know, we're approaching our seven year anniversary. And if you had told me when I was launching the podcast, one, that we'd still be doing the podcast seven years later and two, that we would be award-winning, let alone won six in this year, I would've never believed you. It is unbelievable to me in so many ways, but it is such an incredible honor. I love this podcast and the work our team does on it. I love all of the guests I have had on and the amazing conversations we've had. So, to see that work get recognized is just unbelievable. It means so much to me, and I'm just so grateful to Rachel and Elena who do so much work on this podcast. I, again, I'm the voice you all hear, but Rachel and Elena do so much behind the scenes. And to Meg, who is our amazing editor, who makes me sound good, I am just so grateful to them. You know, I did, and when I told my origin story, I am so grateful to my old boss for pushing me to do this podcast. I am just grateful for all of the support that the Population Institute has put behind it and has let it be what it is. I'm just so grateful for that. And I am always so lucky to have so many amazing guests who have come on the podcast, and I'm grateful to all of them. But I'm so grateful to all of you. Whether you are our new audience or you have been with us through the whole seven years, I just- thank you for being here. I just think that, you know, this is a moment where we are preparing for what is likely to be an unrelenting assault on abortion and birth control, transgender rights, broader LGBTQ rights. It just means so much to win these awards as we are going into that. And we know that our rights are gonna be targeted from day one. And I just, again, wanna say very strongly that repro is going to continue to be here every step of the way to ensure that we are keeping y'all informed about what is happening, and that way that you can join the fight for bodily autonomy and, and make your voices heard. And I'm just so proud of my incredible team. So, thank you all and again, overwhelmed by this incredible honor. So thank you to the Anthem Awards and to y'all. And I'm so excited and I am also very excited because I'm recording this the Friday before you all are hearing it. And I took all next week off. I am very excited to have some time to just step away from everything and get a little bit of a recharge. Like I said, it's gonna be a long, rough beginning of the year...year, next four years, whatever. But there's a lot going on. And so, I'm ready to have a week where, honestly, I don't even have anything planned. I'm just so excited to have the time away. I'll probably do some fun reading and I don't know what else we'll probably do some fun things, but I really just want to disconnect from all the things and recharge. So yeah, that is where I'm at. I guess let's go to this week's episode. I am so excited to have this week's guest on to talk about what comes next in this new term, in this new president. What are some of the things we should be doing to prepare before he comes back into office? And honestly, I couldn't think of a better person to talk to than Erin Matson at Reproaction. So let's go to my conversation with Erin. Hi Erin, thank you so much for being here today.

Erin: Hey, Jennie, always a pleasure to be here.

Jennie: I am so excited to talk to you about terrible, terrible things today. But before we begin, would you like to introduce yourself and include your pronouns?

Erin: Thank you. Yes. So I'm Erin Matson. I use she/her pronouns. I'm co-founder, president, and CEO of Reproaction. Our mission is to increase access to abortion and advance reproductive justice. And I'll just add onto that: damnit, and we're not going away.

Jennie: Yes, I know. I feel like that was like one of the first things I said with the podcast. The first episode is like, I'm not going anywhere. Like, we're gonna keep doing this. Right?

Erin: Absolutely.

Jennie: Okay. I feel like this is such a big question, but there's no easy way to try and parse it. We're facing a second Trump administration and that is gonna have devastating consequences for all of the things we care about. What are some of the, like, big things you're thinking about, like, to be aware of for this in January, I guess?

Erin: Yeah. I mean, the level of disaster as a result of this election cannot be understated. This is not merely a repeat of what happened during the first Trump administration, which was, to be clear, horrific for reproductive health rights and justice. This is the installation of someone who is promised to be a dictator, who is fully committed to dismantling the federal government and making it a shadow in his own authoritarian image. And someone who works hand in glove with an anti-abortion movement, leaders and groups who are fully committed to banning all abortions, banning contraception, banning fertility treatment, and throwing everybody in jail. So, this is very serious. People will get hurt, people will die, and people will be targeted for fighting back. So I'm happy to talk whichever direction you'd like. I think what you're hoping to talk about is at the federal level, what to expect out of this administration. Where would you like to go first?

Jennie: Yeah, and I think one of the other things I have been like really thinking about is there was a big grace period last time of people who didn't know what they were doing and didn't know how, like, to wield their power within the agencies and stuff that will not happen this time, right? Like, I'm not expecting them to come in and like, take time to roll out these policies or get things to happening, like to, they are already gonna know how these areas work.

Erin: Right? And they have a blueprint in place. It is called Project 2025. It includes weaponizing the various federal agencies in order to dismantle the organs of democracy. And in particular, as we talk about reproductive health, to reinstate the Comstock Act, to use a variety of agencies to seek out and punish people who are seeking abortion care. So I don't think it can be overstated the importance of what's going on. And it's ludicrous, Jennie, we're not just talking about HHS and what they wanna do within HHS. You've got them proposing, for example, Students for Life of America, a Leonard Leo group, is proposing weaponizing the Environmental Protection Agency against abortion access. That's how deep this has gotten. So they, you know, they wanna put in place, essentially a ministry of life as an official organ of the state. So, we need to be clear that the anti-abortion side, no matter what kind of gaslighting Trump and others may have attempted to engage in during the election, they're very clear about what they're doing and they're giddy.

Jennie: Yeah. And I think the only other thing that I would add to that too is like, it's not gonna stop at our borders. Like since I do some of the work on the global side, like we know that, like, we saw the majorly expanded Global Gag Rule in the first term and what they're proposing in like Project 2025 was again, a huge expansion of that further. So, you know, things are not gonna stop at our borders. We're gonna see some of the global documents that they worked on come back, like the Geneva Consensus, which was a really anti-rights based document that, you know, just trademark Rachel Moynihan: "was neither done in Geneva, nor was it a consensus document." And seeing probably the Inalienable Rights Commission come back that said like, you know, there are, “okay, there's human rights, but there are some that are more important than others.” Like, that was this tier system and shockingly, like, property rights and religion were, like, the “real rights” and like the rest of us were way down further. And expect to probably see some of that stuff coming back as well.

Erin: Thank you so much for elevating that because it's been a long trend. The anti-abortion hate apparatus in the United States has exported-

Jennie: Oh yeah.

Erin: -has put significant dollars and resources into exporting its hate around the globe and often tries to use the globe and get this is, this is, like, straight up colonialism, right? But attempts to use other countries as a lab to more or less test out their theories of what they wanna impose in the United States. So yeah, I just thank you for bringing that forward. I'm not hearing enough people elevating the global repercussions because I think in part people are like, ah, what's gonna happen here? And I understand that what's going to happen here is very serious.

Jennie: Yeah.

Erin: But we need to remember that our, you know, fellow human beings around the globe are going to suffer greatly because of this in terms of their access to accurate information about reproductive health in terms of their access to contraception, abortion, all the things.

Jennie: Okay. So let's start with the administration and then we'll get to the horrible, horrible trifecta. So we know that they are going to put anti repro through so many places. I'm feeling almost, like, back to the days where like they're never gonna overturn Roe. Where when you try to, like, explain all of the ways that the anti repro stuff is all over, people are like, "that's never gonna happen. They're not really gonna go after birth control. They're not really going to, you know, do all of these things." And it's like, yeah, they are. And we need to have a plan for that, that. And the gaslighting again of like, "that's not, that won't happen. You're being hysterical" is a lot again.

Erin: Yeah. And it's not being hysterical, it's being accurate. What we have is the major anti-abortion lobby groups in Washington are furious about the fact that voters have consistently at the state level tended to vote to support abortion rights and state constitutions. They want to override that. How do they wanna do that? They're coming out in support of the Life At Conception Act, which is instituting federal fetal personhood. This is something that Students for Life has put forward--again, the Leonard Leo outfit--has put forward as one of their top priorities in 2025. They're intimately intertwined with the administration. Additionally, this is something that Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, arguably the largest lobby group that targets and whips up votes, has said explicitly to The Guardian that they are laying the groundwork for fetal personhood and that Life At Conception Act. So, you know, I think one thing that folks need to understand is that this rhetoric that's been used about leaving it to the states, that was always a lie. They will use every tactic at their disposal. So, if they can put in abortion restrictions at the state level, then they're using "leave it to the states" rhetoric. However, they've always had their eye on weaponizing the U.S. Constitution against half of the population with, with capacity for pregnancy. And to be very clear, this Life At Conception Act, which is what it's phrased, it's "fetal personhood," that is a total federal abortion ban that would override state law, that would also ban contraception and IVF and fertility treatment. This is not something that the public wants. The public has always been revolted by that, you know, even before Trump was reelected, in this past year, there was an enormous scrutiny that was paid to this bill that was proposed. And you had a lot of folks on the Hill trying to walk back from it. And even some said, okay, I'm not gonna support it this time. This happened in reaction to the Alabama State Supreme Court decision that declared that frozen embryos were children. And now we're seeing that the act is back. And so, when you have conservative dominance in the House and the Senate and you have a supportive White House, people should be very concerned. They were always coming for contraception. They have long been parroting claims that contraception is medicinally and scientifically equivalent or tantamount to ending a pregnancy, which is just not how it works. And also, I mean, I think, and I'm gonna paraphrase credit where credit is due, and I'm not gonna get the wording exactly right, but I saw this in one, in Kaath the poll's column more than 10 years ago. But it was like the most perfect characterization I've ever seen [chuckles], where it's being posited that taking a birth control pill is the moral equivalent of going out and murdering someone on the street.

Jennie: You know, I just, I'm thinking through all of these things and then thinking that the loss of, like, checks and balances that are gonna be available this right now and thinking through like what Congress is gonna do, like, even with like thinking through like the budget and appropriations and worrying about I mean the, the list is, I feel like endless of like all of the places where I am expecting to see shenanigans with abortion, with repro, with gender-related issues, with LGBTQ issues. Like, I just, I think there are so many areas where you're gonna see so many different attacks coming from the administration, but also from Congress.

Erin: Yeah. And I appreciate you bringing that up because House Speaker Mike Johnson is about as heartless as a human being could be in this regard. This is somebody who came out of those quarters of anti-abortion hatred, that is his background. He's already engaged in targeted bullying of, when you talk about gender oppression, he's already engaged in targeted bullying of Congresswoman elect Sarah McBride by putting in place essentially like a bathroom bill for Capitol Hill. So, they're gonna be trying to move everything that they can move. And I think that this shows that it's not just gonna be, just to your point, it's not just gonna be coming from the White House. The pressure groups are also gonna be worming their way through the Houses of Congress trying to get their punitive vision of sending people to jail for their capacity for pregnancy. That's literally where we are now.

Jennie: And I also fully expect to see coming back, if not this term, next term, the EMTALA cases at the Supreme Court and the mifepristone case.

Erin: Yeah. So, this is super interesting. So on EMTALA, so for our listeners who are maybe not as acronym-aware-

Jennie: Yeah, yeah.

Erin: -so, that's basically the question of should we as a society be guaranteeing the protections of lifesaving medical care to somebody who's literally on their deathbed with this pregnancy gone wrong? And spoiler alert, the anti-abortion position is that, go ahead. Leave her to die. And we've seen the consequences of that before. And we've also seen how much the public hates that even in Ireland, this happened more than 10 years ago to Savita Halappanavar who literally begged in the hospital for a lifesaving abortion and was not given one. It was because of, and in reaction to that, that Irish voters voted for a referendum to legalize abortion in the country. So, I also bring that forward, like, I don't trust this Supreme Court at all. They're gonna do the wrong things. That Supreme Court was stacked to actually achieve these objectives. But I also wanna highlight that that's gonna have, that could have enormous public repercussions because we've already seen that in the wake of Dobbs, that that's gonna be something that's a liability for them. Now the mifepristone case is a really interesting one because, so what happened there was, these groups, Alliance Defending Freedom and others came up with this front group essentially that they created in a forum shopping move. They're like, let's found this place in the most conservative place where we've got the most wackadoodle judge who just operates by himself in order to have him say that, you know, 25 years of FDA precedent of supporting the approval of this safe and effective drug that's in the World Health Organization protocols, that is safer than Tylenol, that is safe and effective, let's try to get him to just overturn that entirely, which is just something unprecedented in science and medicine now. These liars and haters. Now this Supreme Court, again, very anti-abortion.

Jennie: Yeah.

Erin: Very biased, not committed to the rule of law, but committed to a hateful ideology. Even they said the last go around at the Supreme Court that these folks didn't have standing 'cause they were claiming that they were, quote, injured by people using this pill. And they weren't. These physicians, they couldn't produce any evidence that in fact they've been forced to operate outside of their beliefs 'cause that's just ain't happening. Well they were again, so, you know, one of the things, they're dogged in their determination. So, they brought this case forward again, another iteration of this. They've just recently dropped that. And I wanna caution people on how to interpret that because what that says to me, and I wanna depersonalize it, it's not about me. It's about the fact that I study them and I know how they operate. And this means that they've basically got an assurance that there's another way to do this that doesn't involve the courts, that they don't even need to take the time. And really they know they can do this in the courts because the Supreme Court essentially showed them what to do. They said, no, you gotta bring a different group forward. So, they could work this up through the courts theoretically. They had a strategy to do so, but it would be much quicker if they could do this by administrative fiat. And what that administrative fiat looks like is Project 2025, the Comstock Act. Not just the Comstock Act. There's also weaponizing the FDA, gutting the systems. So I think what this reveals is that they're intending to do that as an inside job and not to have the courts do it.

Jennie: Yeah. I definitely did not see that as good news when I saw it.

Erin: Yeah. Disaster.

Jennie: Okay. So this is all terrible, honestly, at times overwhelming, just thinking of like, I remember that feeling during the first term of just so many things coming so fast and furious. I mean that's literally why we started the podcast is 'cause there were so many things happening. It was hard to keep up with the many ways that sexual and reproductive health and rights were under attack. And you know, starting to be in meetings and stuff. I'm, like, my body is starting to remember that like, okay, I really gotta be ready for January. But there are things we could be doing now. What are some of the things that we, or we should be, or we should be asking the Biden administration to be doing now to prep, to do some sort of shoring up where we can?

Erin: Yeah, I'm gonna start with a, usually I like to start with us, but I'm gonna start with the Biden administration 'cause time is running short and we gotta be all business about this. There are open judge seats right now. We gotta fill that bench. That's gotta be a top priority for senators and for the administration. The administration needs to be laser focused on that. There is zero excuse for not putting that at the highest level of priority. And I understand that there are other things that can be at highest level of priority at the same time, but this is one where you gotta walk and chew gum no matter what.

Jennie: For sure.

Erin: So, this is urgent. Like this is the thing that is, I think the number one thing because that is something that cannot be undone, right? Like, once you get the judges in place, and otherwise what's gonna happen is we're gonna have the crisis in the courts exacerbated by the fact that there's- the courts are already stacked right now with Trump appointees. That's a gift that Mitch McConnell gave him by stalling so many judicial nominees previously so that they could be stacked by someone who will do this anti-abortion, deeply conservative bidding. So, that's the number one thing. We gotta stay on top of senators and then on top of the administration to do it. But I wanna talk more broadly about our structures as activists and then also activists ourselves. And I think maybe I'll actually start with activists ourselves. I so appreciate Jennie, how you brought up a feeling that you get in your body about it, because that is actually really like the linchpin of where this starts. The first thing that we've gotta remember is that authoritarian governments depend on overwhelming us. It's a strategy. It's not just like, it's a feature, not a bug. It's a strategy to keep people overwhelmed by the constant onslaught. So for me, I can say that even in my own activism and life following the election, I have drastically decreased my relationship with social media and online news--I'm gonna say by 95%--and I'm sticking with it. And what I am finding is, is by removing myself, by committing to reading actually paper news, by focusing on online news only in the purview of my professional work. But I'm a news addict otherwise. So I used to spend so much time that I'm really able to see the forest from the trees and be strategic about it versus getting in the blizzard of which rapist is being nominated to head a federal agency today. So that's one piece of it. And I think that commitment to the long haul, you know, I'm a marathon runner. Another thing in my personal life and pacing is the art of going slower at times so that you're able to finish the race. And going in constant fire mode right now is not gonna work. I understand the passion and the reason for it because people's lives are at stake. And also we need to be really deliberate and strategic and part of that means investing in ourselves and not burning out. So, that's a piece of it. And then I think another thing that I wanna highlight too is, unfortunately, and I wish I could say like this is something the Biden administration can help with, and I honestly don't think it is, we already saw a bill come forward, even this session that would allow for attacks on nonprofits which often house structures for organizing to make it much easier for them to be penalized and essentially stripped of their power. So I think we also need to be thinking collectively, creatively, about what the most appropriate structures are for fighting back against various things. It's not that the work stops, but it might be how we do it. It's really important. And then I think another thing is that, you know, people of conscience and skills, there's roles for all of us. We really need to be thinking proactively, like, who's- legally we're gonna have a number of legal battles ahead. So, like, both who is suing and willing to sue and do all those pieces, and who also is going to engage in defense that is going to have to happen, both of individuals who are seeking care as well as the structures that are supporting them?

Jennie: Yeah, I have really been doing the same with like, I'm still on social media, but I've really cut back. Like I'm not on it anywhere near as much as I was. And, and then also thinking through the, like, it's gonna be a long marathon, like trying to prep people at my organization who weren't here the first term to like think through, like, we're starting to think about like work plan for next year and being like trying to encourage people to not be overly ambitious in their planning because there are so many things that are gonna pop up and take our attention that we can't think through some of the things that maybe don't need to be expanded at this moment. But there are other ways to do it. And trying to make sure that nobody's overcommitting themselves because again, the burnout was so real in the first term. I really wanna prevent that from happening again and thinking through the ways to not just think of myself, but think of myself in a way that is giving permission to other people of, like, making sure I'm taking those mental health days that I'm not always good about taking. And, but if I'm not taking it, other people, even if I'm telling them it's okay for them to take it, may be less inclined to take it. So, just really trying to think through all of that as we're thinking through this next year, four years, whatever, of, like, making sure that we are really invested, that organizations are really invested in the care and wellbeing of their staff. So many people left repro in the last couple years because everybody was just burning out with everything being on fire all at once. And that's not sustainable. We really need to, as a community and as organizations, really be thinking about the people who are doing this work because it's such personal work. It touches our lives in so many ways that it's not just the work, it's the emotional burden of the work that everybody is carrying that just makes it that much harder.

Erin: Yeah, I mean I hate learning that, like, you know, my niece is expecting a child, right? In a state where I'm like, I'm scared. Yeah. I'm so excited for you to have this baby and I'm so scared that you are pregnant in a state that would let you die if a complication arises. So yeah, I mean it's just so deeply personal I thank you for elevating that. Yeah. The sustainability piece is really real because I think you know exactly what you're saying. Like, we need to be realistic that really bad things are gonna happen and that we are gonna have to, that our capacity is gonna be strained. Like, that's part of it. So being really strategic about okay, where can we have the most impact? And for me, the North Star is and needs to be at all points in this for folks who care about abortion access, you know, first and foremost concern is centering: what do people who need abortions right now need the most? That should be driving the bus more than, like, what's helpful for our organizations. All those things. Like, we really need to be cognizant of the fact that there are people who need care, no matter what's happening in the political environment and we've gotta get it together to support them. So, that's always my North Star and you know, I wish that had always been the North Star of our political leaders. That has not been the case. But I think that we can continue to hold that line that at the end of the day, no matter what the damn law says, people are going to find ways to end their pregnancies. And one piece of news is: even if they, you know, ban the pills outright, even if they start, you know, doing checks on the US Postal Service, all the things, the fact is that abortion pills are incredibly safe and incredibly effective and people are able to use them safely and effectively on their own to end pregnancies. It's happening in the United States already. It's been happening around the world for a long time. And no matter what happens, people are gonna keep doing that. And so, it's important to get quality information to folks. You know, and I don't wanna be, like, naive about it. I mean, another thing about the context that this is happening in is: they wanna ban speech about it, too. So, like, a hundred percent, like there've already been bills in the past where it's like that would make, for example, Reproaction's website illegal in certain states because we're sharing information about how abortion pills work. These people are that committed to decimating what we know of as democracy in the Bill of Rights. So, they make criminal even sharing speech.

Jennie: I mean, honestly, it's not super surprising when you think of how they regulate sex ed in this country and they just don't want you to have the information.

Erin: Right. Right. They don't. And why? I mean, we should also be asking those questions of why. And you know, I just wanna also bring up, thank you so much for bringing up sex ed. One of the big things that we saw in this election cycle and that a trend that we're seeing is this sort of, I'll call it "demographic panic" that's happening, right? And what I mean by that is that people in far right corners are raising concerns about birth rate trend lines going down. And this is not, by the way, a racially neutral concern. This is absolutely about they want more white babies, that is a hundred percent driving the bus. But again, it kind of goes to: why? Why don't they want people to know how their bodies work, right? Why don't they want accurate information? They literally want more babies and they want to do this by not giving people choices, accurate information control over their lives. It's horrible.

Jennie: Okay. So, we always like to end the podcast with actions. Like, what can our audience do to get involved right now?

Erin: Ooh, that's such a great question. Okay, so first I've been saying this for years but it is really relevant right now. Get yourself educated on how self-managed abortion works, because I'm guessing that the audience that is listening to this podcast cares a lot, right? And so, one of the things that means is that others in your community look to you for leadership when they have needs and questions. So, get schooled on the World Health Organization protocol for self-managed abortion with pills because you wanna be able to share that with folks. If folks are looking for that one easy place to go is reproaction.org/sma, like self-managed abortion, it's right there. You can get it in a number of other places, AbortionOnOurOwnTerms.org and other places. So, that's one key piece. Two, I did talk about this kind of urgent priority on open judgeships. So yeah, go on that White House comment forum, let them know that that's a top priority for you and that you're expecting that. And also, get with your senators and let them know that you are looking to see open judicial seats being resolved without delay this term. And that this is a critical issue to the exercise of the human right to bodily autonomy. So, I think those are two really important things. And then another thing is: getting local is really important. We do see that, you know, local state-based organizing is really effective to advancing abortion rights. And so, you know, if your state recently did a ballot initiative, keep in touch, there's still more work to be done with those coalitions. If your state hasn't done one yet, go get with other folks and take a look at if that's a good idea for you all, right? So, I think that's a trend we're gonna see continue. And so, I would urge folks to get involved locally.

Jennie: Erin, thank you for so many great suggestions. As always, so lovely to talk to you. Thank you so much for being here.

Erin: Thank you. Appreciate you to the moon.

Jennie: Okay y'all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Erin. It was so lovely to get to talk to her about all of the terrible things, but it was delightful to have her on. So, thank you Erin and I will see all of you next week to talk about the Skrmetti case and just the broader attacks on transgender rights that we are expecting to see in the new term. Okay. Bye y'all. [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com. Thanks all!