How are States Prepping for the Fall of Roe?

In the 2022 state legislative session, over 500 abortion restrictions were introduced, with many extreme and restrictive anti-abortion bills passing. Rachel Sussman, Vice President of State Policy and Advocacy at Planned Parenthood Action Fund, talks to us about what the recent Supreme Court leak that threatens Roe v. Wade means for multiple states in the South and Midwest United States.

Many states have gotten a head start on introducing harmful anti-abortion legislation. In fact, Oklahoma and Idaho have enacted copycats of Texas’s S.8.—a bill that bans abortion after only six weeks of pregnancy and allows for private citizens to enforce the law against each other through legal action. Oklahoma’s law is officially in effect (PPFA has asked for a stay on the law and is waiting on the decision), while the Idaho law has been stopped at the state court level. Florida, Kentucky, and Arizona have all enacted 15-week abortion bans which will go into effect with the upholding of the case at the center of Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. In addition, Louisiana is contemplating a law that would allow patients to be charged with homicide (which comes with the death penalty in the state) if they receive an abortion. The bill could also criminalize emergency contraception, invitro fertilization, and birth control. (Since we recorded Louisiana lawmakers have taken a step back from this bill for now.)

There are 26 states that are positioned to ban abortion with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, mostly throughout the Midwest and the South. This will leave entire regions of the country geographically stranded when it comes to access to abortion care. Abortion providers, clinics, and funds in states that will continue to provide abortion care will undoubtedly experience extreme logistical and structural challenges while attempting to absorb the patients traveling from out-of-state. Still, there are several states that are working to support and protect abortion in direct opposition to the Supreme Court’s leaked decision. New Jersey, Maryland, Washington, and Connecticut have all voted to expand the type of medical practitioners who can provide abortions (such as nurse practitioners). Meanwhile, Oregon, California, and Connecticut are discussing usage of state dollars to directly support patients in accessing care.

Links from this episode

PPFA on Twitter
PPFA on Facebook
Bansoff.org
Keepourclinics.org
National Network of Abortion Funds

Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast where we explore all things reproductive health, rights and justice. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and I'll be helping you stay informed around issues like birth control, abortion, sex education and LGBTQ issues and much, much more – giving you the tools you need to take action and fight back. Okay, let's dive in.

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Jennie: Hi my friends. How's everybody doing? I'm your host, Jennie Wetter and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, it has been a long, a long couple of weeks, right? I am…um, I'm tired. I'm tired. It’s been just a lot going on. My head's been in a lot of different places. I think I mentioned that I'm just having a hard time processing it all? Right? Like between all of the stress and being burned out from all of the things before…it's hard to feel all the feels with what's happening. I, I think my, my perma-state is kind of numb, and then really sad, and like really worried about all of the people who are gonna have a hard time accessing care. And I know that's not sustainable. I would love to feel some more of the anger ‘cause I feel like the anger is a little more motivating than where I'm at right now, which is not super…I don't have that fire. Like I have determination, but I need some of that fire to, like, get me going. Hopefully that comes soon. So I took some quiet time over the weekend. I didn't go to the big protests. I think I, I know I mentioned this on the podcast before, but big, big crowds. Give me a lot of anxiety and like, I'm fine until I'm not. And then I need to leave. And I'm like really, really stressed. And this was like pre-pandemic, so I can only imagine it's gotten worse. So I took my time for the protests that were, uh, on Saturday to do donating and to buy some more abortion fund t-shirts, which I didn't really need, but of course I needed. So, I did my part. I always feel super bad when I don't go in person, like I should be doing more, but you need to take care of yourself and do what is best for you, and it's all okay. You participate and you are involved in the way that works for you. And I have such an easier time telling that to people than I have getting it through my own head of always feeling like I'm not doing enough, but I'm, I'm doing, I'm doing what I can, and supporting where I can, and speaking out where I can, and that is enough. Let's see, on a lighter note, my head has just not been in a lot of things. I, I did some baking in between our last time we talked, and I had some Gruyere cheese in my fridge and I was like, you know what? This would make amazing bagels. So I made Gruyere bagels…and so excited. They smelled really great. I did the first batch and they came out beautiful, put the second batch in and went to, like, watch some TV while they baked and forgot to set the alarm. Oh my goodness y'all, are the timer. All of a sudden, I was like, it has been a while. It has definitely been longer than 20 minutes. And I, like, came in, and they weren't black, but they were, like, really well done and really hard, and that made me so sad because the first batch was so delightful and smelled so good, but I totally whipped it on the second one. So, you know what, sometimes things don't turn out perfect, and it's fine. Actually, they were still edible as long as I was, like, gonna dip them in something. So, I had some soup that I dipped them in, and it was perfect. Uh, a little too hard to eat otherwise, but they made a perfect dipper for soup. So, you know what? Some good with the bad. It's fine. Let's see…anything else exciting? I don't think so. I think I've just been trying to, like, use my weekends to recoup my energy and just recover, and that's been really nice. Yeah. I think we'll stop there and turn to this week's episode. So, I'm super excited. We have Rachel Sussman with Planned Parenthood Federation of America on with us to talk about what the heck is happening in the states. We do some bad news, but we do do good news too. Cuz there are good things happening and then we talk about what you can do. So it's a great conversation and I hope you all stay tuned for my conversation with Rachel.

Jennie: Hi Rachel. Thank you so much for being here today.

Rachel: Hi, it's a pleasure to be with you.

Jennie: So before we get started, do you wanna take a quick second and introduce yourself, including your pronouns?

Rachel: I do. I am Rachel Sussman. I'm the Vice President of State Policy and Advocacy at Planned Parenthood Federation of America, and I use she/her pronouns.

Jennie: Awesome. So, now that we are a little ways out from, like, the leak that I'm sure just exploded both of our lives recently.

Rachel: Yes.

Jennie: Where are you at? Like, what are you thinking about…this potential ruling since it's not final yet? Like, where we at?

Rachel: Uh, it depends on the hour, the minute, the day, you know, I think…what this did do was wake up a lot of the country to kind of what we've all been talking about for a long time, which was that Roe has, for years, been on the precipice and that, you know, for at least a decade, the kind of constant onslaught at the state level of legislative attacks and kind of state sanctioned barriers to access care, like, always was going to lead us to this moment. I've also been thinking a lot about the people who already live in a post-Roe world and what this looks and feels like for them to have already had access completely out of reach, and it is, it is both imperative that we use this moment to really, you know, shake the country at its core to the impact and devastation it's gonna have on people's lives while also, you know, respecting and honoring the fact that, you know, folks have been living under this regime of a post-Roe world, frankly for a long time. And so, kind of grappling with both those trues.

Jennie: Yeah. It was…like, it shouldn't have been surprising, but it, but it still kind was. The like earthquake of people that are like, “Wait, I'm sorry? They're gonna overturn Roe?” And it's like, we've been yelling about this for so long. How did you not know that this was, like, imminent?

Rachel: Yeah, I think that's completely true. And I think for those of us who focus on state policy and especially the groups and organizations and providers who courageously live every day in those states that have been attacking abortion, they knew. And they've been living it. And so, I do think there is kind of this wake-up call. This was always on the horizon, but there has been something, you know, almost mythical about the Roe decision. There's definitely kind of mythology within this country around the court. And I just think, for some reason, folks did not believe it. And so, I think what this, this does a couple of things. On one hand, I think it wakes up those who support abortion access, which is, as we know, fundamentally a majority of the country. It wakes up, you know, that population to what is about to happen. I also think it emboldens the opposition, not that they needed more courage to do what they do, but I, you know, to me, this continues down the road of just giving permission to push, in particular, state laws that go further and further than, you know, I think anything folks were expecting.

Jennie: So, I think that's a good opportunity to turn into like, okay, so what has been happening in the states? I know we've talked on the podcast before about some of the things, but like, it's been bad for a while. So like, what's been going on?

Rachel: So just this year alone during the state legislative sessions, we saw over 500 restrictions introduced on abortion, many of them passing, but I wanted to kind of highlight a few because I think they tell us where we're at and where we're going. So, you know, Oklahoma and Idaho enacted Senate Bill 8 copycats. So, your listeners probably already know about Senate Bill 8 out of Texas, which basically banned abortion after six weeks and created a whole scheme that ultimately allowed kind of bounties put out to enforce their law. So, in Oklahoma, today, their Senate Bill 8 law is in effect. We are at the state Supreme court asking for an emergency stay and we're waiting on that decision, but as of today, Oklahoma does not have abortion access. After six weeks. The Idaho Senate Bill 8 law has been stopped at their state court, but I think we are very much focused on this leaked decision; we're very much focused on the Jackson women's health decision, which will likely still come down at the end of June, but there are, there is a regime today that is allowing states to functionally ban abortion. And just to note specifically about Oklahoma, I mean, Oklahoma at, at the Planned Parenthoods, we had seen like a 2500% increase in patients coming from Texas into Oklahoma. So, you kind of have a mini scenario where you're watching care, get pushed further and further out geographically for folks. So, what does that mean for some, a Texas patient, who their closest access to care was gonna be going into Oklahoma, and so it's pushing them later, and now Oklahoma has a six week restriction. So, it just, at a functional level, shows you kind of how this is all going to work. in Florida and Kentucky and Arizona, we saw them enact 15-week abortion bands this session, and I know there have been a lot of court-watchers and folks who thought maybe the court was not going to fully overturn Roe, but just uphold the Mississippi 15-week law. And perhaps that's what some, you know, elected officials in those states were thinking. So, right now those, those states have 15-week laws that would go into effect certainly out of the, the Jefferson Women’s Health Organization decision if the Mississippi law was upheld. And then I just wanted to kinda highlight what we're seeing in Louisiana because I…

Jennie: Yeah.

Rachel: Right?

Jennie: Yeah. Like again, like the horror of it should not be surprising cuz like it was inevitable, but, like, seeing it happen is like a whole ‘nother thing.

Rachel: You know, I think the point you make: “this was inevitable” is the right one, and I think, you know, shame on us for thinking they won't go there because folks didn't think Roe is gonna get overturned and here we are. So let me…

Jennie: Yeah, lemme Up back, like what, what happened? What is happening in Louisiana?

Rachel: (12:24) So right now Louisiana is contemplating a law that would allow patients, actual abortion patients, to be charged with homicide, which by the way in Louisiana comes with the death penalty if you get an abortion, but it also could criminalize emergency contraception, using IVF...And I think what is important to learn out of Louisiana, whether this law passes or not, is it really gives a window into what is really going on here, which is, it was never solely about abortion. It was always about limiting access or completely eliminating access to tools that help people who can get pregnant, control their life and determine their future. And so, no one should feel as though the decision over Roe is going to be limited to abortion. I mean, it is, it should scare folks that it is about abortion, but they're just not gonna stop there. And I think the import of that is to show the kind of true motivation of what they're trying to accomplish. And they're not, they're never going to stop. They will never stop. There will always be something that they will be pursuing to maintain their, their power and to control people's lives, to keep them kind of caged or, or where they are kind of in society, whether that's through economic means, controlling your fertility, and so on.

Jennie: I think one of the things you talked about that is really, I mean, it's all really important, but like to highlight, I think people still like hearing Roe might be overturned still don't quite grasp the, like what this crisis is gonna look like. So, just Texas having that six-week ban and Oklahoma seeing a 2500% increase at your provider, seeing a 2500% increase in patients they were seeing. That was one state. I mean granted, a very large state with 1 in 10 women of reproductive age in it, so like, huge crisis. But like, if we're talking about 26 states likely to institute bands, the abortion infrastructure in this country…like, how are states that are going become places where people can go to get abortions…like how are they gonna be able to handle that kind of capacity if the people are able to travel to them?

Rachel: It's a great question. I mean, and just so folks can visualize, so there are 26 states that would be in a position to ban abortion. It's not gonna all happen at once on the same day; it's gonna be rolling. There will be an initial set of states, almost half of them, that will pretty much immediately be able to ban abortion, but we're really geographically talking about states throughout the Midwest and the South. And so, you're not talking about states spread out. And so what you…

Jennie: right.

Rachel: You, you're gonna have entire regions of the country with almost no access, you know, with like almost like Illinois in the middle. I mean, it really is that dramatic when you look at it on a map. And to be totally honest, there is no logistical or structural way to absorb all of the people who are gonna need care. But I wanna raise a couple of things and then I can talk a little bit on the delivery side of some of the work that Planned Parenthood is doing. We know coming out of Texas and the Senate Bill 8 impact that there are simply people who are not going to be able to leave the state for a whole host of reasons, whether it's costs their own internal kind of family dynamics, their access to transportation. There are just, for some folks, too many barriers. And so, I just wanna be clear that, like, this idea that folks can go to another state, while that is going to have to be true and we have to support that, it is 100% unacceptable. It cannot be the answer. It cannot be our gold star that, somehow, we are just now becoming, you know, a movement that is focused solely on moving people around, but that will have to happen, and we will have to try to meet the need of as many people as possible. You know, in Texas and in Oklahoma, really throughout the country, there are like heroes on the ground every day, who are offering kind of a logistical, emotional, and financial support to help patients get the care they need in whatever way they need it. I mean, abortion funds, independent providers in partnership with Planned Parenthood, you know, I think day in, and day out, are trying to meet patient need. But I also just wanna be clear that for some folks leaving their state, traveling far, spending all that time is just not gonna be possible. And then I, I also wanna lift up, you know, a lot of providers, I mean, certainly I can speak for Planned Parenthood, are also grappling with, with COVID, with the intensity of what's happening at the Supreme Court and how you bring that into your work every day, and I just wanna honor, kind of the trauma that so many providers are experiencing on the ground, like, what must that feel like to engage with a patient that you can't provide the care that you were trained to do? I mean, it truly is horrifying. But I do think in the states that are going to be able to see more patients, they have to, like, functionally figure out a way to have, you know, more appointment availability, more providers providing more care at kind of, you know, as many days, uh, of the week as possible. It's gonna require a significant amount of financial support for the funds, and more broadly to support people logistically, traveling and paying for the abortions, you know, and some of the work that we're doing on kind of tech infrastructure, so that folks are able to, you know, navigate and find information online that's true and helpful, and that supports them getting care. So there is, there is a lot of work going on to do that work that is patient-centered and thinking as much as, you know, we can about what is the patient going to need in this moment? What are going to be their barriers? You know, I guess I just caution folks to, to think about how to support people, getting to other places, while also us thinking long-term about…that just fundamentally cannot be the answer.

Jennie: Well, right cuz that was already the case for people who didn't even have to travel out of state, who maybe had to travel a distance within their state. Like, that was already a big enough barrier, let alone having to try to figure out how to get from Texas to Illinois, or Colorado or, you know, these traveling, these great distances, which is gonna just add so many barriers on top of barriers they've already faced.

Rachel: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And actually, you know, this is a, let me lift up some of the things that states are doing who are in a position to expand access, because I think it's really important for states that are politically in a position to support and figure out ways to expand services that that's what they're focused on. It's like, if you can, that is your job. Those states need to figure out how to support the funds, providers on the ground, so that they are able to see this influx of patients. So for example…

Jennie: Yes! Good news. Let's turn to good news.

Rachel: Yeah! Good news. Good news. So, you know, states like New Jersey, Maryland, Washington, Connecticut have all passed measures that actually expand the type of provider that's allowed to provide abortion services. This is crucial. Abortion care is care that can and should be provided by a broad swath of medical providers. It does not need to be just physicians, and the more we're able to expand scope of practice in that way, like think about it. Logistically, the more patients, the more providers you have, the more patients you're able to see. It is a crucial part of what these states need to be doing in order to be seeing an influx of patients. I also wanna lift up states like Oregon, California, and also Connecticut who are thinking through financial support. Like what does it look like to use actual state dollars? And some localities are thinking about it too. What does it look like to use state dollars to support the funds, to support patients directly so they can access care? The other day I saw an announcement that attorney general, Tish James out of New York is working with some state legislators to ask for $50 million in the state of New York to support direct abortion services. We need more of that from leaders across the country, because the only way we solve this, and the only way we get people, the care that they need in the immediate, is going to be with some sort of financial and logistical support.

Jennie: It's so great to see states trying to think of new and innovative ways that they can expand rights. Like after seeing this, just onslaught of states attacking it, it's really nice to see states getting creative about things they can do to ensure that people are able to access the care they need.

Rachel: Yeah, it's, it's crucial because I do think that…It is important for these states to kind of fundamentally protect the right to abortion. But, I think one of the major lessons learned out of the fight over Roe specifically is to be really clear about the difference between protecting the right to abortion and figuring out ways to make that right a reality so that people can actually access the care. And I, you know, many of these states, to be honest, the right to abortion, isn't an immediate threat. I, I, I don't wanna say that everybody should kind of sit on their laurels on that, right? But I do think in the immediate, it is imperative that states think creatively about how they are going to serve people because people are going to come to their state, people in their own state need this care, and frankly states should have always been supporting it more. Um, and so if this gets them there or gets them closer to where they need to be, I'll take that as a silver lining, but I do think states need to be doing more practical and actual support for folks who need access to care, especially in this environment. And not to kind of pull us back to bad news, but I do have to name, you know, after the leak, Mitch McConnell was asked whether a national abortion ban was on the table, and he clearly said yes. And so, while states with good environments need to focus on expanding services, and while it is clear that the immediate impact of Roe falling is really gonna be a kind of tale of two parts of the country, like some states have access, a majority of states don't, it is very clear that anti-abortion folks will not stop there. They want a national abortion ban, which would ban abortion in all 50 states, no matter who your governor is or no matter who your state legislature is. So while there is immediate work to do to make sure states can expand services, we cannot underestimate the ability of Congress and a President in different hands being able to ban abortion nationally.

Jennie: Well, and they want it right from the moment of conception. So that will get into not just abortion, but as you were talking earlier, IVF, certain forms of birth control. It's not just abortion. Abortion is more than enough for us to be alarmed, but it is bigger than abortion as well.

Rachel: Absolutely. 100%.

Jennie: Okay. So, that's the good news and the bad news, and I'm sure we have a lot of people like really fired up. So, what can our audience do? Like what steps can people take right now to take action?

Rachel: Sure. Well, I'm gonna start with the states. Listen, there is not one state in this country that is done with this. If you are in a hostile environment, find your people on the ground and fight back. I am convinced that there are some states where we can stop this, and it is worth trying. So, the fight is real even in states that, you know, others might think are lost. I think we should be investing in and supporting on the ground organizations to fight back in every state that's possible. And then also states, you know, if you live in a state and you think, “abortion is protected here, we're all good.” Well, you already heard me say, like, there is more that your state needs to do. There is no state that is doing this a hundred percent perfectly, and so, folks should be looking in their own backyard, urging their own state legislators, their own governors, their own state attorney generals to act, to, you know, implement policies that are gonna be able to expand services, and we need that. We need that urgently. I also think folks should be amplifying abortionfinder.org. More people are going to need help in figuring out where they can get care, and so, abortionfinder.org is for people who are seeking care, and it gives you access, across the country, to hundreds and hundreds of providers, Planned Parenthoods, independents across the board. Folks are going to need to know where to start, and abortionfinder.org is a great way. And then I think there's, you know, donating. Folks should kind of be donating locally in their state, to local health centers. They, you can donate to independent abortion providers through keepourclinics.org. And of course, there's the National Network of Abortion Funds is always important to support financially, and they support functionally hundreds of abortion funds all over the country. You know, I think to the extent that you are comfortable, I think sharing your story. If you have a story is hugely important, you know, it should be in your own way, in your own time, in your own environment, but you know, everywhere from like the dinner table, to Twitter, to, you know, the front of the New York Times, like, you know, if one in four women have an abortion, we need to be telling our stories. There's tons of organizations out there that do that, like, you know, beautifully. And then, folks can always go to bansoffabortion.org to learn more about all of the kind of advocacy opportunities in their own states and localities.

Jennie: I love that there's, like, this full menu of options of things that people can do. And y'all rage donating feels really good. I have done so much of that. I mean, for the last couple years, but like, uh, since the, uh, Supreme court leaked opinion came out, I have been doing my share of rage donating. So I, I recommend it if you are able.

Rachel: Absolutely. Rage donating is fabulous. And this does give you kind of a broad menu. Like listen, some people want to ensure that their money is going directly to patients getting services. Other folks wanna donate, you know, politically; other folks wanna donate to, you know, organizations on the ground doing that work locally. There is something for everybody. We need it all. So, you know, a special hats-off to those folks who are excited about all those options and donate to all of them.

Jennie: Well, Rachel, thank you so much for being here. I had a great time talking to you about good news and I guess the bad news too.

Rachel: It was great. Thanks for having me.

Jennie: Okay. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Rachel. I had a wonderful time talking to her about the good news. I still had fun talking to her about the bad news, even if it's hard…even if it's hard, I, I feel so lucky to get to talk to such wonderful people and share our conversations with you. So, hope you enjoyed it. If you have a topic you'd like us to cover or somebody you' like us to talk to, you can always feel free to reach out to me at Jennie and that's J-E-N-N-I-E@reprosfightback.com. Or you can reach to us on social media, and we're @reprosfightback on Facebook and Twitter and @reprosfb on Instagram. Otherwise, I will see y'all in two weeks! For more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit us at our website at reprosfightback.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at @reprosfightback and on Instagram at @reprosfb. If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening!

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