Busting Disinformation and Pervasive Narratives is Crucial for Bodily Autonomy

Disinformation around reproductive health and rights is highly strategic, leading to pervasive narratives that intentionally divide and control. Anneshia Hardy, scholar-activist, social impact entrepreneur, and narrative strategist, and Executive Director of both Alabama Values and Alabama Values Progress, sits down to talk to us about pervasive narratives and mis- and disinformation surrounding sexual and reproductive health and rights (SRHR), particularly in the Black community, and how busting these narratives is crucial in the fight for bodily autonomy and liberation.

This conversation is rooted in years of historical context. In the U.S., Black women have faced generations of exploitation and control over their bodies, and much of this exploitation and control exists to this day. Other birthing people, including Indigenous, Latinx, and Asian people, as well as people with disabilities, have also faced reproductive violence in the U.S. Some of the most marginalized communities are also unduly impacted by false narratives around SRHR, including: SRHR is separate from racial justice or only a “woman’s issue”; abortion bans are about “protecting babies,”; or abortion is a moral and religious imperative. Control over our bodies is fundamental to liberation, and these narratives not only impede—but disproportionately so—people’s ability to live freely.

Links from this episode

Anneshia Hardy
Anneshia Hardy on Instagram
The Rise of Pregnancy Criminalization: A Pregnancy Justice Report
It’s My Body. Period.
Yellow Hammer Fund

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro]

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Jennie: Hi rePROs. How's everybody doing? I'm your host Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So, y'all everything has been chaotic. Like, honestly, that is the best word for everything right now, is it's feeling just really chaotic, starting with a really important mentor of mine passed away unexpectedly. I'll talk more about that in a different episode. I'm not quite in a place where I wanna have a longer conversation about that yet, 'cause I'm pretty sure I will cry through the whole thing. But just, so that I've been dealing with that and there's just been a lot of other things happening at work and I am getting ready for a work trip but I'm gonna see my mom on that work trip, so that's super exciting. She's gonna drive up and meet me 'cause it's not incredibly far from where she lives, but it's like all these things I'm trying to get done before I go getting the podcast ready to be able to go out while I'm gone and all of the things and like trying to record stuff for right after I get back and just on and on and on. So, there's just been so many things happening that it's just, it's been chaos. It's been chaos, y'all. But in a very exciting, good news, rePROs Fight Back is a finalist in another award. Y'all, I can't believe it. It's so exciting. We are a finalist in the Anthem Awards again in two categories. One, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, and one Human and Civil Rights. I am very excited. We won both of those categories last year. A silver and human and civil rights, and a bronze and diversity, equity and inclusion. So, I'm very excited to see that we're finalists again this year. I am just so, so incredibly proud of my team. They do such amazing work. And Rachel and Elena, they're just so wonderful and have done so much for this podcast. And I'm so proud to see all of our work recognized. I am just so thankful for them and for my editor Meg, and for all of the guests who have been on the podcast, right? Like, because of them, we have these amazing episodes. I'm thankful to you, our wonderful audience. So again, if you want to support us in this endeavor, there is a people's choice version of the award for each of the categories. So, you can go and vote for rePROs Fight Back, we'll make sure to have the link in the show notes so you can vote for rePROs to win Anthem Awards in the People's Choice category. Very exciting. I am, I'm just really excited. So, thank you Anthem Awards. It's really exciting to be recognized as a finalist in these two categories. Let's see. I mean, if you want to also show your support for rePROs, we have really fun stickers that we have a giveaway for. If you donate $25 to support rePROs Fight Back, you get these really cute stickers designed by Liberal Jane. I love them. You can see them on our website. They're super cute. And if you get $50, you get the stickers. Plus, this really, really fun bag that I personally absolutely love. It says, "abortion is a human right, not a dirty word." So if you donate $50, you get the bag and all the stickers. So, if you want to wear your support for re pros, donate $50 and get a bag with all of the fun stickers. I think with that let's just turn to this week's interview. I had so much fun talking to Anneshia, so I'm so excited for y'all to listen to it. So, our guest this week is Anneshia Hardy. She is a narrative strategist and she works for Alabama Values. So we talk about pervasive narratives and misinformation, particularly around Black women. So, it's a really wonderful conversation. I hope you all enjoy my conversation with Anneshia.

Jennie: Hi Anneshia, thank you so much for being here today.

Anneshia: Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited.

Jennie: I'm so excited to talk to you. But before we get started, I tend to get excited and, like, jump right into the conversation. So let's, like, maybe would you like to introduce yourself first and include your pronouns?

Anneshia: Yes, yes, yes. For those who are listening, my name is Anneshia Hardy, she/her pronouns, born and raised from Montgomery, Alabama, and you know, I consider myself a narrative strategist. That's exactly where my purpose and passion intersects. I believe who controls the narrative controls the power. I believe that one way to keep groups disempowered is to create barriers to information. So, I'm all about creating, you know, leveraging narrative and messaging and creating content to raise awareness around issues, close the knowledge gap, and mobilize communities. So that's me in a nutshell.

Jennie: I am so excited for our conversation today to talk about misinformation you're seeing...lots of things, particularly in the Black community, but I feel like we can't just jump in and start with the misinformation, right? Like, this all has historical context behind it, and I feel like we should like, take some steps back and start with that kind of framing. Otherwise, some of the rest might be a little harder to explain.

Anneshia: Oh, yes. Oh yes, you're talking my language now you're talking about historical context. I always tell people we have to, we have to like ground ourselves in ourselves in like, where did all this come from? And so, you know, often say, like, the legacy of controlling birthing people's bodies in this country, you know, goes back to slavery when we think about Black women, where our bodies were treated as property used for labor and, you know, reproduction without our consent. And that dehumanization is still felt today. And policies that limit our reproductive choices in the criminalization of our bodies and the healthcare system that consistently fails Black birthing people. This isn't just about, you know, this whole like, fight for reproductive rights, this isn't just about, like, individual choice. It's really about autonomy and who gets to control the future. And I know I mentioned like, this dates back to like the legacy of slavery, but that dehumanization is still alive today. It didn't stop then.

Jennie: No, it didn't stop.

Anneshia: And in fact, after the Dobbs decision—there was a report that just came out—after the Dobbs decision, Alabama led the nation in prosecuting pregnant people for pregnancy outcomes like miscarriages, substance abuse, or birth-related issues. Nearly half of the criminal charges filed nationally came from Alabama alone. And this report is from the Pregnancy Justice. It's a nonprofit based in New York City, and it estimated that there were at least 210 prosecutions related to conduct associated with pregnancy, you know, like pregnancy loss or birth nationwide. And Alabama was the leading state in that, with 104 of those cases coming from Alabama. But I do wanna say, you know, that this history doesn’t really, it isn't just about like Black birthing people, like other birthing people of color, like Indigenous, Hispanic, Asian birthing people have also a long faced reproductive violence, that's what we're gonna call it, you know, and control in the form of forced sterilization, you know, of course, like family planning programs and restricted access to reproductive health services. For example, Indigenous birthing people were sterilized without consent in government programs in the 1970s and Hispanic birthing people have been subject to similar abuses in the US and across, you know, Latin America. Also, you know, Asian immigrant birthing people in detention centers have also reported being sterilized against their will and…

Jennie: People with disabilities. I mean, Buck v. Bell.

Anneshia: Oh, let's not get into eugenics. I'm gonna get there too. Like, and the common thread across these abuses is that our bodies have been seen as something to control, regulate and exploit. And this is all rooted in systems of white supremacy and male patriarchal structures that view birthing people as less deserving of autonomy and freedom. So, I think we can all agree that our reproductive decisions have been tied to social and political agendas throughout time. And so, I often tell people that this fight for reproductive justice isn't just about abortion or birth control. It is about challenging these systems that have sought to diminish our agency. And then to your point, even beyond just birthing people of color, you know, this issue of body autonomy is one that touches everyone—trans men non-binary, you know, people who, you know, can get pregnant, they face similar oppressive systems that restrict their right to choose. And then also, you know, I do wanna bring into the space that we also saw, white birthing people, particularly poor and disabled, white birthing people have also been targeted. In the early 20th centuries, eugenic laws were used to sterilize people deemed "unfit," quote unquote, you know, "unfit" by society. And, many, many white birthing people, especially those from low income backgrounds, were swept into these efforts under the guise of "improving" the population. So, I think it's important for us to understand that historical context as we look at the contemporary fights today.

Jennie: Yeah. Because it is all, it's the same conversation, even if it's changed its shape a little bit, it's still the same systems and the same things that are happening.

Anneshia: Yeah.

Jennie: So, what are some of the narratives you're seeing right now that you've been thinking about?

Anneshia: Oh, honey. Lemme tell you.

Jennie: I know there's so many.

Anneshia: Listen, I know there's so many, and I'm gonna try to pick the top, the ones that's just pervasive out there. Disinformation around reproductive rights is highly strategic. It is designed to uphold systems of control by distorting the truth and creating, you know, division, right? And one of the most, you know, damaging false narratives is that reproductive rights are separate from racial justice or merely a woman's issue.

Jennie: Or even just separate from healthcare.

Anneshia: Oh, oh, yes. Like, you know, it is healthcare. It's a form of healthcare. And I'm gonna get there also, like, I think starting with that layer, that intersectionality, like, you know, a common statement might be abortion only affects, you know, just women, you know not communities of color, which ignores the dis, you know, disproportionate impact of abortion bans on Black and brown and low income birthing communities who often face systemic barriers to healthcare and economic stability. And so, these bans disproportionately push these communities deeper into poverty and limit their ability to make decisions about their bodies. And then there's this narrative that abortion bans are pro-life and about protecting babies. And that's misleading because it really oversimplifies like a complex, this very complex issue and fails to address the real harm that these bans cause rather than "protecting life." And I use air quotes when I say that, you know, these restrictions, you know, severely limit access to necessary healthcare, like you said, like abortion is a form of healthcare. And that, you know, that leads to higher maternal mortality rates. I mean, Alabama has one of the highest maternal mortality rates particularly among Black and brown communities, you know, birthing people of color already face significant barriers of healthcare, you know, to healthcare, and abortion bans really exacerbate these disparities often, you know, forcing these, you know, marginalized communities into unsafe conditions. I also wanna point out that the term pro-life is often used to invoke, like, this moral outrage, right? But it really ignores the lives of, you know, these people and their families who are directly, you know, affected by these laws. Because a lot of these communities, they are more likely to live in areas you know, with limited healthcare access and fewer resources to travel for services. And studies have shown that abortion bans, they lead to an increase in maternal mortality, and that this impacts us all. So, instead of saving lives, these bans put birthing people at a greater risk of harm. And then additionally, I do wanna point out that this narrative conveniently overlooks the fact that many of the same pro-life advocates are often silent on issues that truly support life. And you know what I mean. Like, such as, you know, affordable healthcare or, you know, maternal support policies that address poverty inequality. As of September 2024, we think about my state, like Alabama's poverty rate is estimated to be about 15, a little bit over 15.5, 15.6% which it was, you know, it was 16 last year, but Alabama is one of eight states with a poverty rate above 15%. And we can say that about states across the South. And so, the lack of support of these critical services, like for the highlights, the real goal of abortion bans, like it's not, this is not about protecting life. It's really about maintaining control over people's bodies. And then I think the last, you know, narrative that's out there that I really wanna point out, and it's a very strong one, you know, and we really hear it among like, conservative rhetoric, right? And it's the religious narrative, right? The religious argument, you know, that is often used in debate over abortion. Like, it's framed as this moral imperative, right? Claiming that life begins at conception and that abortion is this affront to religious values. I mean, if you've heard it. However, this argument is very problematic because it imposes one set of religious beliefs onto public policy, ignoring the fact that not all religions or individuals hold the same views on when life begins and what constitutes more responsibility. And this, you know, it really contradicts the principle of religious freedom, right? Which, you know, our country prides religious freedom, democracy, but this contradicts that by enforcing a singular religious viewpoint on a diverse population. And then also, the pro-life stance selectively applies religious principles to justify controlling women's bodies and birthing people's bodies while conveniently neglecting, like I mentioned before, other aspects of life and wellbeing that many religious traditions uphold. Like, for example, many religious texts emphasize compassion, care for the vulnerable, and equity and social justice, yet advocates of this religious argument, you know, against abortion, they often fail to address the broader systemic issues that affect life, such as poverty, healthcare, access, racial equity, right? So, I think reproductive rights should be really grounded in the principles of bodily autonomy, equity, and justice, regardless of your religious affiliation, right? Because again, it is a form of healthcare.

Jennie: All, all of that. And, like, yeah, I think it gives up the lie when you see, like, they're not gonna stop at abortion, right? You're already seeing those attacks turning towards birth control. So, it's not just about-

Anneshia: Contraception-

Jennie: Right. Not killing babies or whatever their, like, pro-life argument is. Like, it is completely about control when they don't want people to be able to decide if and when to get pregnant.

Anneshia: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. No, no, that's true. I think, you know, we saw in Alabama with the IVF ruling.

Jennie: Yeah.

Anneshia: Like, people started to see how these laws, how that, how the Dobbs decision, how it is, how it's creating a pathway for all, you know, for these legislators across, you know, in these states to come out with these very aggressive laws that really strikes like our body autonomy.

Jennie: I mean, again, like, the "life" argument just, it doesn't hold water for so many reasons. First of all being: how many pregnant people are we talking about that have not been able to get a needed abortion because they were miscarrying or something and they were waiting until their life was at risk? We've already heard about women who have died because of that. Like, this is just, it's so wild to me.

Anneshia: Yeah, it's wild, you know. But we have to stay informed. We have to continue to advocate for what we know, what we know is right. This fight is tied to, it is tied to our freedom. It's tied to the wider, like, movement for freedom and liberation. Like, it's sad that we're still fighting this fight in 2024. Like, I had a friend that just watched the Handmaid's Tale, right? What was, it was, I think that's the name of that show, and called me and was like, oh my gosh, like, we could be here like [laughs]. You know, it was, that was like, it was like, we could, we could be here. Like just how things are going.

Jennie: And, like, Margaret Atwood was clear when she wrote the book. Like, this was based on things that were already happening, right? Like, that was what inspired her was things that had already taken place. Yeah. Let's speak more about how all of this is part of the bigger fight for liberation and social justice. I think, again, part of that argument of like trying to silo off abortion and repro as separate makes some people, like, miss this part where this is part of this broader fight.

Anneshia: No, but you are absolutely right. Body autonomy is freedom. Like, it is the ability to decide what happens to your body, your future, your life. And when we think about liberations and communities that have been oppressed or, you know, marginalized, this is fundamental to our struggle for liberation, like, having control over our bodies. Like, if we can't control our bodies, how can we truly be free? Like, so you see the fight for reproductive justice, it really intersects with so many other issues like voting rights, economic justice, healthcare, racial justice. For example, without the ability to control our bodies, we can't fully participate in democracy. You know, this includes decisions about our healthcare and reproductive rights. When we think about economic justice, it's tied. It's similarly, you know, tied. When reproductive choices are restricted, it disproportionately affects birthing people's ability, it limits their economic mobility and opportunities. Additionally, lack of access to reproductive healthcare is often, you know, linked to broader healthcare inequities that, oftentimes a lot of Black and brown communities face already. And, and that exacerbates the racial disparities in maternal health and outcomes that exist. And so, you see these, you know, these issues are interwoven in the fight for reproductive justice, you know, is part of a larger movement, I said this before, like, to dismantle systems that have long restricted our freedoms and rights. So, when we are fighting for reproductive rights, we are simultaneously fighting for the right to vote, to have economic opportunity, to access healthcare and to be free from racial discrimination and disparities. And each of these battles is part of a collective and holistic struggle for liberation, because we cannot achieve freedom in one area without addressing the others. And so, reproductive justice touches every aspect of our lives. And until we secure body autonomy, we cannot have true control over our futures. And I just, you know, I think that's important to note. Like, when we look at this fight for you know, reproductive justice and body autonomy, like it is literally tied to the fight for freedom and liberation.

Jennie: And you've seen it become part of a political fight, right? And now used to, like, make everything political and make it harder to access this care. How do we combat these narratives and, and the politicization of basic fundamental human rights? Like, how do we fight back against that?

Anneshia: Yeah, I mean, reproductive rights are, you know, absolutely, you know, we're seeing it being used as a political tool, like the whole, you know, the fight—a tool to galvanize or divide voting blocks. But the consequences of these political games are very, very real and dire.

Jennie: People's lives, man.

Anneshia: Yeah. Like, when laws restrict reproductive access, this impacts us all. But what's even more insidious, I'm gonna use that term, [laughs] is how, you know, but seriously, like, but what's even more, it's worse. It's just how these tactics are often rooted in fear and control. Like, politicians use disinformation to divide us, to pick communities against each other when we should be working together to get towards solutions. When in reality, reproductive justice benefits everyone. So, to push back, we have to stay informed. We have to stay connected, and we have to vote. Like we need to amplify the voices of those most affected, keep fighting for policies that protect our rights, and really call out the tactics that aim to silence us. You know, kind of like how we're doing on this call, on this episode today. This fight is about survival and we need to approach it with that urgency. And I think, as we think about, you know, moving forward, like, we need to recognize that the fight isn't just about the courts or policy makers, like, it is about all of us, you know? And that advocacy around this starts at the community level. So again, educating ourselves and our families and our neighbors about what's really at stake so we can push back. We have to, I also shout out to all, you know, birthing people, like we have to continue to lead this fight as we've always done, by organizing and voting and using our voice, our voices, to demand policies that protect our bodies and our futures. We also need to support and uplift organizations that are doing the work. And I think centering the voices of those who are mostly, disproportionately impacted and centering, I wanna say like centering the voices does not just, you know, it's not just about highlighting the stories, right, but making sure that those voices are at the decision making table.

Jennie: And like, from the beginning, right? Like, don't bring them in and like, "hey, this is our plan. Can you, is it okay? Like, does this look good to you? Like, we're good. Okay. We consulted." Like, they need to be there day one.

Anneshia: Day one. They need to be your A one. Like, they need to just be there. And you know, in building solidarity and this, so this is important. And I think building solidarity across racial and socioeconomic lines is gonna be essential to dismantling these interconnected systems of control. And that's important in this fight. And so, again, like, you know, the path ahead really includes pushing for policies that protect our body autonomy, for everyone regardless of race, gender identity, or income. Like, we have to support, you know, legislation or do education around, you know, policies that ensure access to healthcare, including reproductive services. Because as we said before, abortion is a form of what? Healthcare. Let's say it all together: like, this is healthcare. And so, you know, I think while doing that education, you know, while also addressing the broader issues like social justice issues like voter suppression, economic inequality, like reproductive justice is not just an isolated issue. It is really about securing the ability for all women and, you know, birthing people to make decisions about their bodies without interference. And so, I think, I'm really happy that we're having this discussion because you know, myself, you know, being the executive director of a grassroots communications organization that launches narrative campaigns, we have one called It's My Body, Period. Where, you know, it's a narrative campaign centered around leveraging art, culture, and content to really shift the pervasive narratives that are out there around this reproductive justice fight. And to also, because we know this is a very touchy subject for some, to create an on ramp for folks who might not see themselves involved in the fight. So, we use, like, art, we use culture, community conversations, peer-to-peer discussions to really stir up public discourse around this. I can remember we had an art-tivism event that was centered around the repro fight. It was like an art popup, and it was art that dealt with the issue. And I'll never forget, it was an older couple that came up to me and said, you know, I saw the promo for this event, and we thought we were just coming to, you know, we thought we were coming to a community art exhibit and we're gonna have like heavy hors d'oeuvres and music and talk and, you know, so we thought this looked like a cool event to come to. But when we came and we saw the art, and we started hearing the topics on the panel, well, the fireside chat, we realized that, oh wait, this is a community education event. And then she held my hand and she said, keep doing them like this. She said, I never would've come [laughs] if you had told me, she said, just keep doing them like this. She said, when you got me in here, she said, you got me in here, and when you got me in here, I learned some things. And she said some things that I'm gonna take back and have discussions with my circles about. And so, and that's really what it was about. That was the goal for the event. And so I make, I give that example to say that we all can have these kitchen table conversations, these nail salon conversations.

Jennie: Yes.

Anneshia: Even look, even men, like you all can have these conversations because this fight impacts you too. So, I just, you know, I wanna encourage those to let's get out and raise awareness. Let's push back at some of this disinfo, misinfo, these myths that are out here. And just remember that this fight is attached to liberation. It's attached to our freedom, you know it's attached to collective liberation. You know, we use that term and say, you know, when one has an issue, you know, we all have an issue and no one's free til everyone is free. And you may notice that I really approach, you know, my work and a lot of the work I do through the framing of Black liberation, because, you know, when we say no one's free until we all free until we're all free, I often say that we all won't be free until Black folks are free. And the reason I say that is because of this country's roots and history in anti-Blackness, and a lot of those tactics are interwoven into all of our social institutions. And those same tactics are now being used to oppress and marginalize other groups, right? And so, we have to address these root issues. And that's why I kinda look at this work through that Black liberation framework, because I'm able to identify, going back to it, how we started the discussion, the historical context, and the legacy that a lot of these tactics are rooted in.

Jennie: I really love that you brought up having the kitchen table conversation and the art exhibit as ways to bring people in. There are people whose minds we may never change, right? And like, that's fine, but there are people who are not as steeped in this as we are. And so, they just hear, there should be a 24-hour waiting period before you can get an abortion and think, "well, I mean, that seems reasonable," but don't know all of the details. So, you start to have a conversation with those people and explain what that really means in terms of people's lives. And you can change minds because they haven't had to think about it in that more nuanced way, because this isn't their day-to-day. They're just trying to live their lives and get by every day. And so, those simple basic conversations can do so much.

Anneshia: Oh my gosh, yes. Like, meeting people where they are, you know, and even when you talk about, just even an example that you used, like I know we just remember Amber Nicole Thurman. Yeah. Like who, whose death was preventable, like completely preventable, 28 years old, died after being denied treatment for 24 hours due to Georgia's strict abortion laws. You know, Georgia has, the state of Georgia has a six week abortion ban that prevented Thurman from being able to access abortion care in her state. So six weeks is, you know-

Jennie: It's so early.

Anneshia: It's before, I mean six weeks, I mean, it's before many even realize that they are pregnant. And, you know, and due to Georgia's laws she was forced to make a journey across state lines to access care. And in North Carolina, was able to have a medication abortion and return home. But unfortunately, she was, you know, one of those cases, you know, where complications, where she didn't expel all the fetal tissue. So, she eventually, you know, sought treatment at Piedmont Henry Hospital. But in Georgia, but however, due to, like I said, Georgia's strict abortion laws, doctors did not proceed with a dilation. And coverage, which is commonly known as a D&C. And for those who might not know what that is, a D&C is a procedure to remove tissue from inside your uterus. And so instead, doctors waited for 20 hours to operate. And while they monitored Thurman's infection, you know, during which that time her blood pressure dropped, her organs failed. And so, pretty much doctors watched her die. And the blame begins, you know, with the politicians and forced birth groups who created these policies and these barriers. But however, this was a lot. You had hospitals, you had doctors who take an oath to protect life first, but in this case, because of this ban and because, just the chilling climate that it set, we saw a hospital who chose to protect, like, you know, whether it be their profit over patients or who just really felt like they were hands were tied, but this just the death was preventable. So, when you think about when we say abortion is a form of healthcare, like, because of this law, like literally they watch her die in a hospital where we should be able to access care. So, you know, being able to like have those conversations and kind of push back on, you know, have those kitchen table conversations and give these type of type of examples and say, hey, look, this happened here in our state, or hey, this happened in a neighboring state, or hey, this happened to someone who was your age, 28 years old. Like, you know, being able to have those type of conversations and show people like, hey, this fight is critical. And it's often these laws are often a death sentence for some.

Jennie: And like, they're gonna tell you that there are exceptions, right? They tell people that there are exceptions to make them feel better. Exceptions do not work, whether that's a rape exception, whether that's life. We saw this, right? How much does your life have to be in danger? Is it just health? Is it one organ system failing? Like, they do not work in practice because you cannot legislate all of the things that you need to put in place.

Anneshia: Yeah. And then, systems of power and privilege comes in when you think about the exceptions, like, exceptions for who?

Jennie: Yeah. I mean Medicaid, right?

Anneshia: Yes.

Jennie: Like, if you're on Medicaid, there's the Hyde Amendment, it says it's not gonna pay for your abortion, so you have to be able to pay for it out of pocket.

Anneshia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, let's be clear, these exceptions, like you said, they're difficult to assess and they force, you know, birthing people to prove their trauma or meet impossible standards set by policymakers who are often not impacted by this issue. And I think these exceptions suggest that only some people are deserving of bodily autonomy while others are not. And again, we are calling for true reproductive justice. This means full bodily autonomy for all, you know, all people, all without restrictions based on criteria or certain rules that are set. And again, that body autonomy is tied to liberation, freedom, like, tying it back all to that.

Jennie: Okay, so while I feel like I could talk to you forever and would love to.

Anneshia: Girl, me too. [laughs]

Jennie: Let's maybe, like, wrap it up. And I always love to end with not just having people feeling hopeless, but giving them something they can do. So, what can our audience do to get involved in this fight?

Anneshia: Definitely tap in with organizations that are advocating for this fight. Like volunteer, tap in, give your time or your treasure, resources. Also spread the word. You are trusted messengers in communities that I'm not a trusted messenger in, or, you know, that we are not, you know, trusted messengers in. And so, take this information back and have those kitchen table conversations. I think, you know, while the challenge we face in the fight for reproductive justice is, you know, it's significant. There is hope for our like, collective strength, right? Every step towards body autonomy, every push against an unjust law brings us closer to that true freedom and liberation. And I think that just understanding that together, like, we can really build a future where people have the power to make the decisions about their bodies and free from interference and control. And this work is about just securing, like, the dignity that we deserve. And so, I encourage folks to use their radical imagination about what this change could and should look like. And the reason I use that term, you know, radical imagination, you know, it's really rooted in like in the sixties, the radical Black imagination where, you know, these communities, regardless of the political and cultural climate that they were facing, they continued to march towards progress towards a dream, right? And so, we have to do that. We have to tap into that and leverage the power of the collective. So, for folks who are listening, stay engaged, stay informed, and tap in also definitely, you know, connect with me, you know, at anneshiahardy.com also I do wanna shout out, you know, Yellowhammer Fund, which is an organization that is doing some great reproductive justice and mutual aid work, particularly across the South. So I just wanted to put that out there.

Jennie: Aw thank you. Always love supporting abortion funds. Anneshia, thank you so much for being here today. I had so much fun talking to you.

Anneshia: Yes, likewise. I had fun sharing this information and, and really just, I hope people took away from this. I hope they have tools and resources to go and educate their community because that's what it's about. And you know, that's my passion. I leverage narrative and messaging to do that.

Jennie: Okay y'all, I hope you liked my conversation with Anisha. Like I said, I had so much fun talking to her. It was so wonderful. And again, I'm just so excited for our being finalists in the Anthem Awards, that is so exciting. Again, just huge, huge, huge congratulations and thank you to my team. The entire rePROs team is so wonderful. I am so lucky to have them. And yeah I will see all of you next week. [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com. Thanks all!