Wendy Davis on the Abortion Landscape in Texas and Her Famous Filibuster

A complete lack of abortion access and a climate of fear amongst patients and providers has descended over Texas in the past few years. Wendy Davis, former Texas state senator and Senior Advisor for Planned Parenthood Texas Votes, sits down to talk with us about the current landscape for abortion access in Texas and her famous 2013 filibuster.

Texas currently has a complete ban on abortion with extremely limited exceptions. Only a few years prior, in 2021, Texas passed SB 8, which banned abortion at six weeks of pregnancy and allowed virtually any private citizen the ability to sue someone who accessed or attempted to access an abortion. Recent ProPublica research has found data on increased poor health outcomes and death due to the impacts of the present abortion ban. The Texas legislature has denied the data to be reviewed by the state’s Maternal Mortality and Morbidity Review Committee.

Links from this episode

Wendy Davis on X
Planned Parenthood Texas Votes
Planned Parenthood Texas Votes on X
ProPublica – Texas Won’t Study How Its Abortion Ban Impacts Women, So We Did

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro]

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Jennie: Hi rePROs. How's everybody doing? I'm your host Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, it has been another chaotic week and there are so many things happening, but I am going to focus on, last weekend was my birthday, so I'm actually recording this before my birthday, so I don't know everything that happened, but I am looking forward to a fun weekend, got lunch with some friends, and having a really chill weekend before getting back into, like I said, I have a ton of things happening at work right now that are all happening all at once. And it is, I feel, I just feel chaotic and like my inbox is a disaster. Like, I think "dumpster fire" does not do it justice. It is just what is one stage above dumpster fire because it's bad right now. I'm trying to stay on top of it, but there are so many things competing for priorities at the moment that it just, I feel, I feel the chaos everywhere, but I'm looking forward to a fun birthday weekend, and I have some treats that have already arrived that I'm very excited to dig into and just have a nice birthday celebration. I have a big birthday trip planned later this year. I'll tell you about it after it happens, but I'm very excited that my mom and I are gonna go somewhere. So, I'm very much looking forward to it. And then, yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anything else really big I wanna talk about. I don't really wanna talk about all the things that are happening in the world right now because there is so much, and it, like I said, feels chaotic, but I wanna keep this intro kind of light and fun and I’m very, very excited for this week's interview. So, maybe we'll just go right into that.

Wendy: We have Wendy Davis with Planned Parenthood Texas Votes on to talk about what is happening in Texas right now. There was some reporting that came out recently talking about a huge increase in sepsis rates in Texas. So, I wanted to touch base with someone in Texas to talk about what is happening on the ground. But I just wanted to maybe do a little fangirling before I get to Wendy. I did a little bit with her, but if you are unfamiliar, Wendy Davis was a Texas State senator, and in 2013, I think she had this really famous filibuster where she stood up for 13 hours to try and defeat a big abortion bill that was moving through the Texas legislature. It was so inspiring. There were so many people that turned out in Texas to support her. So many people were following it on Twitter back when it was a better place. There was just this big gathering of community and this inspiration you could just feel in the air for what she was doing. Texas has some really strict, I mean, really strict rules for how filibusters need to be done. Wendy talks about some of them, but one of the ones she didn't mention is the person who is filibustering has to speak on topic. So, she couldn't just go up and talk about whatever for 13 hours that she needed to talk. She had to be specific on things related to the bill. I cannot imagine having to talk nonstop 13 hours on something specific to a particular bill. So, it was just so inspiring. I do, I just remember checking in on it throughout the day, sitting in bed at night listening in to the filibuster and watching and spending time in community on Twitter as it was happening. And you could just feel the energy and the hope that they were gonna stop this bill. And they did, right? Like, they stopped it at, for that time. It was later reintroduced and passed. But what Wendy did was amazing, and it was amazing to see it happen and watch it unfold in person. And y'all, I was so excited to talk to her. So, I tried to keep my fangirling to a minimum as I try to do on the podcast what I speak to people that I am just in awe of because I've had some guests that I am very inspired by and I try not to be too overwhelmingly nerdy and excited when I talk to them. But I did do a little bit with Wendy. So with that, let's go to my interview with Wendy Davis.

Jennie: Hi, Wendy. Thank you so much for being here today.

Wendy: Well, hello, I'm happy to be with you.

Jennie: Before we get started, would you like to take a quick second and introduce yourself and include your pronouns?

Wendy: Sure. My name is Wendy Davis. My pronouns are she/her. I am a former Texas State senator, and I am currently senior advisor with Planned Parenthood Texas Votes.

Jennie: Y'all, for any of you who are not familiar with Wendy, you should definitely look back and see what she did during her career. I have vivid, vivid memories of sitting in bed late at night watching your infamous filibuster and just, it was so amazing and so inspiring to see you stand up for, what was it, 13 hours? Just absolutely amazing.

Wendy: Thank you. It was a group effort. You know, that was back in 2013. Who knew that that would be the glory day of abortion rights in Texas? But we were fighting what was known as TRAP law, which was a targeted regulation of abortion providers. Of course, Roe was still very much the law of the land, and Texas was trying to figure out how, through targeted regulations, they could close as many abortion health centers as possible. And indeed, if they'd been successful in passing all of the tenants of that bill, we probably would've gone from 42 health centers performing abortion care in Texas to five. And we were on the last day of a special session when the bill came back to the Senate, and we knew that if we could talk the bill to death past midnight, then we could keep it from passing. And in Texas, a filibuster is a true act of physical endurance because you have to talk the whole time. You can't take turns with your fellow senators like they do in the US Senate. You can't sit, you can't lean on your desk, you can't leave the floor to go to the bathroom. You can't have a drink of water.

Jennie: Oh, I don't think I knew about the water or didn't remember the water.

Wendy: Yeah.

Jennie: My God.

Wendy: So, we had 13 hours ahead of us to try to defeat that bill. And when I say it was a group effort, I mean that very sincerely because there were so many thousands of people who came to the Texas Capitol that day. It was the first time in history of the Texas Capitol that it had to be closed because it filled to capacity. And it was just such a beautiful reminder for me, a beautiful lesson for me of what can happen when we all decide to show up. And indeed, it was the voices of the thousands of people who gathered there that day that literally lifted us over the midnight deadline because about 15 minutes before midnight, my filibuster was called to an end through some inappropriate procedural rulings. And the folks who were gathered were just so upset about what they saw as a grave injustice, and it was truly their voices and their upset that kept the vote from being taken before midnight. And it was just a beautiful moment in Texas history, I think.

Jennie: I think back to, like, the TRAP laws, and, and they make me think of something I think about a lot with abortion laws and some of the, like, anti-trans legislation we're seeing where they sound innocuous on their surface,

Wendy: Right.

Jennie: But they have like deep, deep harm embedded in them, right? Like-

Wendy: Yeah.

Jennie: Saying a clinic should be an ambulatory surgical center, or that doctors should have admitting privileges. It's never that simple.

Wendy: Right.

Jennie: And, but if people just hear those things, they sound like things to protect safety or like common sense things, but the implications are so much bigger than that.

Wendy: Yes, they definitely are.

Jennie: Okay. So, that brings us to this moment. So what- I think people are probably fairly familiar with what the landscape for abortion access in Texas is right now. But maybe we should just be clear just in case there are some in the audience who aren't as familiar. What does it look like right now?

Wendy: So, right now we have a full abortion ban in place. Prior to the Dobbs decision, which overturned Roe, we had a six week ban in place, which was essentially a ban. It was an unconstitutional ban because Roe was still the law of the land, but it was creatively in a maniacal way written so that the state actually couldn't be sued for instituting the six week ban because private citizens were given the power of enforcement essentially. And it's a, you know, long, complicated explanation. But Texas was really the first state in the country, even before Roe fell, to experience what it looked like to have an abortion ban. And then of course, when Dobbs was decided, we had a trigger law in Texas, and the trigger law basically said that if Roe is ever overturned, then immediately abortion will be illegal in our state. And so, it is now fully against the law. There are criminal and civil penalties associated with violating the ban. And there is no exception for rape and incest. There's no exception for fatal fetal anomaly. There is purportedly an exception for life of the mother, but what we've learned is that it's really not worth the paper that it's written on because it's written vaguely enough that doctors and hospitals are so afraid of violating it because the penalties could be up to a life in prison. And what that means is that women in Texas who have needed crucial emergency abortion care have been denied it to the point where we know that at least three women in our state have died, and many others have come close to death because their doctors have allowed them to become septic before they finally intervene and provide that care. And it's all unfortunately a consequence of the way the exception is written. And it demonstrates to me and to others in our state and other parts of the country where similar bans are in place that exceptions really don't work because they're only as good as the person who's getting to decide whether the exception applies. You know, even in states where they have exceptions for rape and incest, who gets to decide whether you were really raped or you were really the victim of incest? And it's just a powerful testament to the fact that abortion bans are tremendously violative of human rights, women's autonomy over their own bodies. And even with exceptions in place, it really is always in the hands of a lawmaker who's getting to decide whether you should be able to make this most personal healthcare decision for yourself.

Jennie: Yeah, there is- the stories coming out of Texas, I mean, there's stories from multiple states, but I feel like there have been more out of Texas probably 'cause you have that extra nine months or so with the, with the ban in advance-

Wendy: Yes.

Jennie: -have just been heartbreaking. And I think one of the things, if there's any, like, good that you can put on any of this is I think the broader public is getting a better understanding of, like, why abortion access is so important and why these exceptions aren't working. But it's just been devastating to pregnant people trying to access care, people who are in emergency situations and need access to care. It's not easy to get it. Texas is a huge state. You can't easily leave to get care. Lots of states around it have bans. So I, you know, you started to talk about some of the health things that you've been seeing. There was a big ProPublica piece that came out last week. Kind of what are the, like, big picture things we're seeing in Texas for health implications?

Wendy: So, the first thing I wanna say is the reporting that ProPublica has done on the impacts of the abortion ban in Texas have been incredibly important. We really didn't have any data, for example, about deaths that were associated with our abortion ban until ProPublica did the deep hard work of requesting, through public information requests, data from hospitals all over the state to discover that women had actually died because they'd been denied miscarriage care in all three instances. These were people whose fetus was not going to survive, and who unfortunately were denied the care that they needed to manage that and lost their lives. And in more than one situation, left behind families, left behind children. You know, most recently ProPublica did a story that revealed, again, by scraping data from hospitals around the state, revealed that our sepsis rates, the incidents of sepsis in Texas had more than doubled since our abortion ban went in place. Interestingly, this data has actually been denied review by the maternal morbidity and mortality task force in Texas, which is supposed to be the task force that studies maternal mortality, determines what the causes of that maternal mortality are and makes recommendations about how we can do a better job of preventing maternal death. They actually, the task force was denied the ability to review data that would have implicated Texas abortion ban in the incidents of maternal mortality and morbidity. And so, ProPublica put out a story that said the Texas legislature won't let the maternal mortality task force review this data. So, we did it instead. And I'm so grateful that they did, because how can we possibly say that we are taking a holistic and meaningful look at what's happening in terms of the risk of being pregnant in Texas if we're not looking at the risks that the abortion ban has added to what was already a really concerning set of data in terms of what was happening to pregnant women in Texas, particularly Black women who are dying at three times the rate as Latina and white women in our state?

Jennie: Yeah, I mean that's definitely something I've been thinking about is the maternal mortality crisis we already are in across the country, particularly for Black women. And Texas isn't the only state who's like, actually we're not gonna look at those, that data. I think Idaho also really disbanded their maternal mortality review board. It is just…I mean, I wanna say, like, mystifying, but, like, [they] don't wanna look at the harm they're doing, I guess. So, it's not, like, super surprising. But it is horrifying that they are not even getting that data and that, you know, I'm sure…ProPublica is doing so much, but I'm sure there are things we're not seeing that we would be seeing if these boards were doing their jobs.

Wendy: That's exactly right. And you know, it's alarming that the legislature is working so hard not just to deny the reality of what's happening on the ground as a consequence of this cruel abortion ban. Not only that they're denying their own kind of review and coming to terms with what they've wrought. They're also denying public understanding of it because they know that the general public in Texas is actually no different than other states. The vast majority of people in our state support access to safe legal abortion, at least to some degree. A huge swath, more than two thirds of our state support abortion in instances of rape and incest life of the mother and fatal fetal anomaly. And so, the legislature is trying to hide from the public the reality of the consequences of a ban that ignores public opinion on those issues.

Jennie: Okay. So now that we have an idea of just truly how bad it is, what can be done at this moment to make sure that we are doing what we can to protect pregnant people?

Wendy: So, part of it really is making sure that we understand what the consequences look like, and that requires data and that requires all of us to be vigilant in doing everything we can to understand the reality on the ground in places like Texas. We can't really shape public opinion and move voters unless they really understand what's happening. Interestingly, there was a story, it's probably been, I don't know, seven or eight or nine months now that came out about the fact that a majority of Texans didn't even understand that our ban doesn't have exceptions for rape and incest or fatal fetal anomaly. If they don't even understand the fact that we don't have those exceptions, they certainly don't understand what the consequences to maternal health have been as a consequence of this very draconian ban and information is power, you know, as the saying goes. And I consider it a really important part of our work at Planned Parenthood Texas Votes to ferret out that data, to share that data to inform voters and help make sure that they know that they actually have the power to do something about this with their vote.

Jennie: Yeah, the information gap is really big. And I think a lot of the mis- and disinformation is definitely a tactic to make sure that people aren't aware of their power and their ability to access care. But it's one of those things where as people find out more and more about the harms that are being done, you see the public opinion moving. So, it is so important to get that information out there.

Wendy: Yes. And you know, one lesson I think we've all learned in that regard in this last legislative, or excuse me, this last electoral cycle, there was a lot of money spent to uplift understanding in Texas and elsewhere about the abortion ban, the lack of exceptions, and what the consequences had been in the lives of women who'd confronted this reality, women who very much wanted their pregnancies and who almost died as a consequence of not being able to get that care. That really helped shape public opinion in a way that actually did impact lawmakers' feeling of responsibility to do something about it. So, as we came into this legislative session in January, we immediately started hearing from state leaders like our lieutenant governor, our governor, and others, that at the very least the exception language needed to be clarified, that doctors needed to be given a more clear direction about when they can intervene without being at risk of violating civil and criminal law, and that this clarification was necessary to prevent more fatalities and to prevent more women from near fatalities as a consequence of not being able to get the care that they need. So, I'm encouraged that public opinion actually has helped sway Republican lawmakers. And I fully expect that in this legislative session we will see an improvement in that “exception” language. I don't know exactly how improved it will be, but it's another lesson in how data and understanding shape public policy and, and that we all actually do have a powerful role to play in making sure that that happens.

Jennie: Yeah. As much as I would love to see all the abortion bans go away, if we could pass things that are making meaningful differences to people who need that emergency care and saving lives and health, right? Like-

Wendy: Yes.

Jennie: We focused mostly on lives and lives at risk, but there are severe health complications that people are suffering long term from not being able to access that care or loss of fertility. So if we can make a difference in that, like that is huge.

Wendy: Yes.

Jennie: It's not all the things we want and need and, and have a right to, but like making that difference really will be meaningful for the people who are able to exercise their rights.

Wendy: No question. It will save lives. There's no question about it.

Jennie: So, there was also another stat about underage people having to leave the state. Can you tell us a little bit about what that data was showing?

Wendy: Sure. Well, first I wanna back up a little bit and, and just point out that there are a lot of great organizations on the ground in Texas and elsewhere who are doing everything they can to make sure that people who need to leave the state to get abortion care can do so. In spite of that though, there are simply some people who will never be able to avail themselves of that care. They have kids at home that they can't leave, they have jobs that they have to show up to and that they'll get fired if they take a couple of days off of work to go get care. And as we expected would be the case, the burden of this abortion ban in Texas has fallen most heavily on women of color and particularly low income women in our state. And, and what that means over time, and certainly the data has proven this out: when people are denied access to abortion care, they tend to live in continued poverty and that poverty tends to be generational in its impact. So it's just, it's not only cruel to the people who aren't able to access the care, it's, it's so shortsighted from the economic wellbeing of your state and your country when you're denying people the ability to realize a brighter future for themselves and to be a stronger contributing member to the bottom line economy of your state. And we're gonna see that play out over time in Texas and elsewhere. We're going to see the data that proves that point that it actually hurts all of us. The other thing I think is important to point out as part of this conversation is that even people who think they support abortion bans are actually going to ultimately be at the receiving end of the consequences of these bans. Because in Texas, we are losing OB/GYNs left and right who no longer wanna practice medicine in our state, who are justifiably fearful of what might happen if they provide needed care to someone whose life is threatened by lack of access to abortion. And we're also losing medical students wanting to do their OB/GYN residencies in Texas because of the climate of fear that's been created in that practice of medicine here. And so over time, and it's already starting to happen, we already had a huge shortage of OB/GYN care deserts in more than half the counties of our state of 30 million people. Now that problem is only going to get worse and worse and worse. And so, the impact is going to be felt by everyone. Even people who very much desire their pregnancies and who support abortion bans—they're going to start feeling the consequence too. And then finally to get back to the question that you were asking about, we also are seeing that the number of underage people who have had to leave our state to get abortion care has been alarming. And even more alarming and truly sickening are the number of under the age of 12 girls who have had to leave our state to get abortion care. I can't even imagine the trauma that is visited upon a girl who obviously has been the victim of rape and who now has to go to another state to get the care that she needs. And it just highlights the cruelty of these laws and certainly the cruelty of not having exceptions that could apply to instances like that. And I hope it's a clarion call for people who think these bans are a good idea to understand what the human consequences of them are.

Jennie: All this has made me think about like the one thing like tying kind of all of this together, a little bit of what you just said of how Black and Brown people are being the most impacted, low-income people, talking about those rural OB/GYN deserts and now we hear Congress talking about gutting Medicaid.

Wendy: Right.

Jennie: And like all of that is gonna play into this and make everything so much worse.

Wendy: That's right. Because when you, when you take healthcare away from people without means you necessarily take away from them the ability to get contraceptive and family planning care, you take away from them the ability to plan their lives and futures you take away from them the ability to provide for their families to go to school to get better jobs. And again, the long-term ripple impact of that is that you take away the vibrancy of your economic wellbeing in the state. And that hurts everybody. There's a, you know, saying that Hillary Clinton was fond of saying, "when women do better, we all do better." And it is true that when we give people the opportunity individually to do better, their families do better. Our communities do better, our employers do better, our economy does better, we all do better. And when we're at the whim of lawmakers who are attacking women's ability to thrive and succeed, which is very much what these abortion bans are about, at the end of the day, everybody suffers from that.

Jennie: Okay. So, I always love to end the episode not just with what are all the problems, but ways to get the audience involved, and how can the audience fight back? So, what actions can people who are listening to this podcast or reading the transcript, how can they get involved?

Wendy: So, a few, a few things I would suggest in that regard. Number one, you know, do some research. Use your ChatGPT and ask it to show you some information on what the consequences of these abortion bans have been. And then share it. Don't take for granted that people know how bad things really are. As I said, and as we've been talking about through this episode, information is power. And when we can inform people, we move people and we activate people to help drive the change that we need to see. So, something as simple as just doing a little bit of research, sharing it on your social media channels, sharing it with your friends and family and others in your community, it's really important. Secondly, especially if you live in a place like Texas, make sure that you're reaching out to the people who represent you, whether they're Democrat or Republican, and let them know how you feel about what's happening. You know, I was a state senator for six years and I can tell you that it matters when people call your office and tell you that they're upset about something, it matters when they're writing you emails and letters and postcards. It matters when they show up in your district office and demand that you meet with them and listen to their concerns. Those can be, I think, a little less comfortable for some people than others. Do what whatever you feel is right for you in that regard. And then finally, I would say get involved in lobbying. So for example, in Texas, we, every other year when the Texas legislature is in session, Planned Parenthood Texas Votes and our healthcare affiliates throughout the state work together to quote unquote "pink out" the Capitol. We all show up and we wear our pink and we go to every office in that Capitol and we talk to our legislators, whether they're pro or con, where we are on this issue. We wanna make sure that our voices are heard. This year, that lobby day in Texas will be happening on March the 20th. You can sign up to participate in the lobby day by going to [plannedparenthoodaction.org/planned-parenthood-texas-votes]. And there's a place there on our website where you can sign up to participate. You'll get information about, you know, where to be, when to be, you'll get information about who to meet with, what to say, and you won't be alone. That's the great thing. And I think a lot of times people might feel uncomfortable walking into a legislator's office by themself, but if they've got, you know, a dozen people alongside them who are also being represented by that House member or that state senator going into the office and they've got talking points with them, which of course we provide, it can feel actually quite empowering to do that. So, I would encourage people, please participate March 20th in the Texas Capitol if you live in Texas. And if you don't live in Texas, you know, get online and, and find out where lobby days might be happening in the state where you live and how you can sign up to be a part of it. It really does make a difference. But not only that, it just makes you feel good to know that you're doing what you can. You know, and then, don't let that be your only engagement. When it's time to vote, do what you can to help turn out other pro reproductive rights voters. Sign up to do some block walking or phone calling or postcard writing. Make sure you own your own responsibility to vote. Make sure you encourage everyone in your family and friendship circles to vote and tell them why. Tell them why it matters and help them see that it really does make a difference, because it does.

Jennie: I would just add one thing to your, call your representatives and congresspeople when you're mad. If they take a good vote, also thank them for their support and show them that you support their actions, especially if it's a hard vote.

Wendy: Yes.

Jennie: Like, it just, it really does make a difference.

Wendy: It truly does. And, and again, speaking from my own experience, a lot of times you hear about the people who are upset with you. You don't often hear the people who think you're doing a good job. And it means a lot when people reach out and pat you on the back, write you a little note, you know, stop by the office and say thank you. It means a lot. And it means a lot to the people that work with you in your office too. You know, whether you're in the district office or the capital office, those folks work really hard every single day. They do all the research, they prepare their members to make sure they're doing a good job and giving them some kudos really helps.

Jennie: Well, Wendy, thank you so much for being here today. I had a wonderful time talking to you.

Wendy: Thank you. I did with you as well. Thanks for all you do.

Jennie: Okay, y'all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Wendy. It was great, one to hear her talking a little bit about the Texas filibuster she did, but also just to hear about what is happening in Texas right now. There is- it's a really terrible health crisis and we're slowly getting data because groups like ProPublica are doing important, digging into the numbers, work. And I'm sure we will continue to find out more and more horrible stories as ProPublica and others continue to do, dig in and do reporting. Okay, y'all, with that, I will see everybody next week. [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com. Thanks all!