The Green Wave: How Abortion Rights Are Spreading Through Latin America

The green wave, a liberal feminist movement started in Argentina, increased mobilization in 2020 to decriminalize and destigmatize abortion across multiple countries in Latin America. Catalina Martínez Coral, Regional Director for Latin America and the Caribbean at the Center for Reproductive Rights and leading member of the movement that decriminalized abortion in Colombia, sits down with us to talk about the inspirational movement, the human rights gains made across Latin America, and what the U.S. can learn from green wave activists.

Starting in 2020 in Argentina, hundreds of thousands of activists took to the streets outside of Congressional buildings on a weekly basis to demand abortion rights. Still, before the green wave spilled over from Argentina into Mexico and Colombia (which later affirmed the right to abortion), Latin America and the Caribbean was one of most restrictive environments worldwide for the access of abortion services. Currently, seven countries in the region have a total ban on abortion (El Salvador, Jamaica, Honduras, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Suriname). In these countries today, and in countries that had previously criminalized abortion, many people face or have faced limited exceptions to abortion access (abortion in the case of rape, to save the life of an individual, etc.), provider bias, stigma, and more. 

U.S. advocates can learn a lot from the green wave movement and its incredible activists. First and foremost, the U.S. must begin by incorporating human rights standards as part of domestic work. Second, the U.S. can continue to strengthen the abortion rights movement and its mobilization in order to make as much noise as possible around important, just, human rights issues.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Center for Reproductive Rights on Twitter
Center for Reproductive Rights on Facebook
Centro de Derechos Reproductivos on Twitter
#ThxBirthControl Toolkit

Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast where we explore all things reproductive health, rights and justice. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and I'll be helping you stay informed around issues like birth control, abortion, sex education and LGBTQ issues and much, much more-- giving you the tools you need to take action and fight back. Okay, let's dive in.

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Jennie: Welcome to this week's episode of rePROs Fight Back. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, are you still riding high from Tuesday's elections? Woohoo! We got some big wins for abortion rights. You know, abortion was on the ballot in five states and in every state they were on the ballot abortion rights won. That's pretty amazing y'all. So that means California, Kentucky, Michigan, Montana, and Vermont all voted in favor of abortion rights. We keep telling you, abortion is popular. Let's get on it. Let's get on this train. Abortion rights everywhere. Let's see. In my joyful mood, I got a new cookbook recently by the Sweet Feminist. Y'all might have seen her on social media. She shares fun bakes with a feminist message on them. Anything from like abortion rights re human rights to any number of other feminist messages. And she has a new cookbook out. And you know how most cookbooks are organized by like, you know, pie, cake, whatever. She did a really fun thing and it's called Baked by Feel. And all of her recipes are arranged by feelings. So there's like a chapter for when you're feeling sad or when you're feeling joyful or any number of feelings. So I decided to make a happy one and I made her sour cream sugar cookies. And y'all, they made me so happy. I still have some and I'm looking forward to eating one after I am done recording. Mm, yeah, sugar cookies are kind of my jam. And these were just perfect and I highly recommend and I cannot wait to try more recipes from her cookbook Baked by Feel. Let's see here, what else is going on? Ooh, if you are listening to this episode when it comes out tomorrow, November 16th is #ThxBirthControl day. Great way to go out and be loud and proud on social media and talk about why you are thankful for birth control. I will make sure to include the toolkit in our show notes so that you can access it, but it's really great opportunity to go out and say what a difference birth control has made in your life, right? Like, I wouldn't be where I'm at. I wouldn't have been able to complete college or go to grad school or any number of things if it hadn't been for birth control. So thanks, birth control and so on. That’s on social media, that's #ThxBirthControl. So yeah, go out and shout out why you are thankful for birth control and as I said, we will include the toolkit and our show notes. And that is tomorrow November 16th. Okay, you know, I'm feeling like a little positive today, so let's do a happy episode. I know, I feel like it's always so many things are on fire and y'all, so many things are still on fire, but like, let's just keep this entire episode positive. So I am so excited to do an episode talking about the Latin American green wave and I am so grateful to have had Catalina Martínez Coral from the Center for Reproductive Rights come and join me to talk all about what the green wave is, what has happened, what is next, and what we can learn from the green wave movement. So with that, let's go to my conversation with Catalina.

Jennie: Hi Catalina. Thank you so much for being here today.

Catalina: Thank you so much for inviting me. I am very excited.

Jennie: I'm so excited cuz we're going to talk about good news and that has been few and far between right now here.

Catalina: I know, I know. I am happy to bring some good news.

Jennie: So I guess before we get started, do you want to do a quick introduction of yourself and include your pronouns?

Catalina: Yeah, of course. I am Catalina Martínez Coral. I’m the Regional Director for Latin America and the Caribbean at the Center for Reproductive Rights, but I was also part of the movement that abortion was won in Colombia, the organizations that filed the lawsuit before the constitutional court and I was one of the leaders of the movement, uh, too. So I am very happy to be here and my pronouns are she and her.

Jennie: Wonderful. Like I said, I'm so excited to talk about good news and to talk about the green wave, but I guess maybe before we get there, we should take a step back and talk about what did abortion access look like in Latin America before the green wave started?

Catalina: Well, Latin America and the Caribbean, uh, was and still is one of the regions with, uh, more restrictions worldwide to accessing abortion services. Right now, we have seven countries in the region that have total bans on abortion. You know, like for example, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Haiti, Suriname. And this is the reality today, even with the green wave growing up and making a lot of [difference] across the region, the reality is we need to advance a lot in the region. Before the green wave in the countries that have criminalized abortion, recently, for example, Argentina, Mexico, and Colombia, women were having a lot of barriers to access abortion services. The model that existed before in these countries was a model of exceptions, not like, uh, when for example, uh, the life of the woman was in danger because of the pregnancy or when the pregnancy was the result of a rape so very limited exceptions to access abortion. And, and I think that cause of, of those limitations, women were like facing a lot of barriers to access services. Not only because, for example, medical professionals were like interpreting the exceptions in a very narrow way or because there still is a lot of stigma between health professionals across the region, uh, and of course in society. So I think that was like taking and understanding that model of exceptions was limited and that women continued facing barriers and not only in the medical system, but also in the society in general. The green wave, which is now the hope of the whole region, and I can say right now in the, in the Americas, right? It was, was a goal, uh, that was really looking forward to not only advance in the legalization of abortion laws, but also in creating a conversation, a political conversation that can support the fight, the social fight to really decriminalize abortion socially, you know, like that, that society was hearing about this, was understanding the, the topic. And I think that that was how the green wave began at the first moment. Yeah.

Jennie: I think one of the things that the broader public in the US is just starting to come to understand is the way some of those exceptions you talked about, really, like they're not well defined, right? Like when is the mother's life in danger enough for the exception to go into effect? And there's just such a wide range of ways that that is interpreted that are so harmful.

Catalina: Yeah, totally. It's very complicated and I think that in Latin America we have that for many years and we understand the, the impact, the real impact that a model of exceptions can have in the life of women and girls. Just to give you an example, in Colombia when we were litigating the case before the court, one of the numbers that we were presenting before the court was that in 2021 more than 4,000 girls in the country gave birth, girls that were less than 14 years old. And in our country where, when you have like sexual interaction with someone being less than 14 years old, that’s a rape legally. So these girls like really needed to be able to access reproductive services and abortion services in the country under the rape exception, but they didn't have the possibility to do it because of a very narrow interpretation. And that is one simple example, but I can give you many.

Jennie: Yeah, I think that's why we're talking about like how all bans are terrible because they get in the way of, I mean honestly just basic healthcare. And so that is why watching what the green wave has done has been so exciting. I remember, man, maybe 2018, there were some Argentinian activists who came and did a presentation in DC talking about their work. And so it's just been so wonderful to see it grow since then. Let's talk about it. So what is the green wave and what has been happening?

Catalina: The green wave is a very robust feminist movement in Latin America. It was started in Argentina many years ago. I think that women in Argentina have been fighting for this under the green wave framing for many years now. And that is like the movement that achieved the decriminalization, uh, of abortion in Argentina in 2020, at the end of 2020. And, and it was a, a very important movement, not they brought abortion before the Congress. And it was law approved by Congress, the final tool, you know, like that. But also I think that the green wave movement in Argentina was very important because they really created a cultural and social environment to make this win. And, and, and this was something inspiring and important. Uh, women were taking the streets, were talking about this in a very loud way, were having this conversation in the public arena with journalists, with digital influencers, with actors, with opinion leaders in the country. So, really abortion was part of the conversation even in the families, no? Like it was something that began to really be very present in the country and after the win Argentina. And I think that they were fighting in the Congress for this, the green wave started to grow across Latin America. So feminist activists in Latin America were already using the green bandana, which is now our symbol to show that we are part a unified fight. Right? And after that, Mexico and Colombia gave very important steps as well. Even if the fight in Mexico and Colombia were before the courts and not the Congress, as Argentina did, it was very important because the lawsuit that were presented both in Mexico and Colombia and that we won in both countries, is lawsuits that were part of a broader movement. So of course, some of the lawyers were litigating the case before the court, but this was part of a movement that was also working in Mexico, in Colombia, in having the public conversation, doing pedagogy of why this was important, having public conversations, taking the streets, even during the COVID-19 pandemic, no?

Catalina: Cause for example, in Colombia, they did the litigation, the beginning of litigation was at the end of, of the COVID-19 pandemic and it was difficult to take the streets, but we were there, we were like really present in the public arena, which was very important I think for the last outcome because the decision of the court is essential, but what for me was more essential of the fight was the possibility to create this public conversation and to really fight stigma and to really explain why this is a human rights matter, why this is a matter that needs to be part of the political agenda, why we need to really talk about this, and in doing that we are building support in society and we are creating guarantees so that barriers can be eliminated in the future. Right? And I just wanted to add one thing. In Colombia for example, it was also important for us to be able to have a lot of multipliers in the conversation, right? So for example, the feminist movement was of course very present in the conversation, but we also, um, had uh, so many allies from others fields, in the human rights world, but in a more general way. People that are very progressive and democratic in the country but are not part of the feminist movement, but they were talking about this, or political leaders that never have been like talking about abortion issues, but they were talking about that during the, the litigation. So that was important. And, and I think one my last comments around this is that the fight in Colombia, I think that has been groundbreaking for two reasons. Why? One, because we were looking for the total elimination of abortion from the penal code. We really wanted to create policies in the health system so that abortion was only regulated in the health system and that we can really forget about the penal code and the criminal system as a way to regulate a health service and a human right. So I think that that changes a little bit the conversation and it's a very important one that we need to continue building. And even if we didn't have at the end the total elimination that brought us to have a very important decision with a very important time to access abortion in the country right now-- uh, abortion is decriminalized in Colombia until week 24—that means that we are one of the, of the countries across the world with a very, very progressive standard to access services.

Jennie: I have to say as somebody who works in both domestic US repro and global, it has been just so energizing to watch the green wave grow and spread and to see just all of the amazing work and the fights that have been happening in Latin America and the Caribbean at a time when things were pretty bleak here. It was just so nice to have these rays of hope that we could focus on and see that like it's gonna come here and it is already coming here. You're already seeing a lot of green on the streets and at the protests and it's just so wonderful to see that international movement making its way into the US space as well. But before we get to US implications, let's talk about what's next for Latin America and the Caribbean? There are a lot of other countries that still have really bad restrictions that you mentioned. So what's next for the green wave?

Catalina: Well, I think that at first, uh, implementation of the decisions that we have already won I think is the most difficult stage of the fight. Like to really able to implement. And I that in Argentina, Mexico, and Colombia, we have been working very good in the implementation of, of the decisions. For example, in Colombia, we have been working with the Ministry of Health and since, uh, February this year that the decision released until now we already have two decrees that are, um, regulating abortion services in the country under the frame of the decision that we want, which is a very good outcome in a couple of months, right? So we're happy around that. Implementation also means that we need to continue working in the social decriminalization of abortion in these three countries and in the whole region. And this means that we need to continue combining advocacy, communications, mobilization strategies so that the topic of abortion continue to be the part of the political agenda, which is important to do in terms of pedagogy and to really a continue fighting stigma. And then in other countries where we can see some possibilities to advance, I think that Chile is, is very close to doing it. Um, unfortunately they didn't want the constitution this year, you know, like they were creating this new constitution, but the constitution needed to be voted by the people and the people didn't accept the first draft of the constitution. But that constitution, that draft the constitution included abortion as a fundamental human right. So they're continue in that and I'm hoping that maybe in Chile we will be seeing some progress, uh, very soon. And, and also now that Brazil has changed the, the government, you know, like no more Bolsonaro in Brazil now, uh, we're welcoming Lula, uh, with a lot of hope for reproductive rights in, in, Brazil. I hope that this is going to create an environment in the country to create advancements in Brazil. Also, I think that I should mention what is happening also at the regional level in, in, in the building of human rights standards, right? Because what we have achieved, for example at the Intra-American Court of Human Rights is important cause it's, it's binding for whole stakes of the region. And the Intra-American Court of Human Rights has decided, recently, a case, uh, that litigated at the Center for Reproductive Rights, the case of Manuela v. El Salvador. And it's a case where the court recognized the impact that criminalizing abortion has on women's lives and has also asked the countries in the region to regulate, uh, the professional secrecy of health professionals so that they don't accuse women that are writing to hospitals looking for reproductive healthcare, which is a very important standard, very important recommendation that needs to be implemented across the region. And that is, that is uh, something that states nees to fulfill. And finally, right now there is a case before the court, Intra-American Court of Human Rights, that is Beatriz v. El Salvador. Uh, which is gonna be I think the first case where the court will have the opportunity to really develop standards around abortion rights. And so let's see how how it goes. But yeah, that is what I'm seeing right now in the region for the future.

Jennie: Wow. There was like so much in there to think about. I think one of the things that had me thinking of is worrying about healthcare workers reporting, like that is a major concern. And it's something that I think people who maybe aren't in the repro movement are starting to grapple with a little more on what that's going to mean in the US context as well. And that's really worrying cuz that's a space where you should be able to trust your provider to do what's best for you. And that's not always the case when abortion is criminalized.

Catalina: I know, I know. And that is why it's so important also to consider abortion in a very broader way because abortion is not only about fighting for the legalization of abortion services, but also really fight for everything that is around the service, so it's, for example, professional secrecy, uh, of health professionals, or for example, the need to understand the capacity and consent that girls and adolescents have, uh, to decide around their bodies. I think that that osalso something that we need to continue fighting for, for that capacity, that evolving capacity that girls and adolesecents have to make decision over their bodies. Also to eliminate third authorizations, you know, and that still exists and, and I imagine that in the US maybe is something that is going to start being more present after the Dobbs decision. And finally, I was just to see the restrictions that women have to access abortion in one state and how they’ll be looking for that in another state and which kind of restrictions can be like built in that, in that sense. So yeah, I, I think that we need to have our eyes open in many fields, what makes this fight very complicated.

Jennie: Okay, so the other thing I remembered that I was thinking of is the implementation part, right? Like you, you've got these great changes, but I think this is something we talk about in my global side when we talk about like the global gag rule where it like comes and goes, but it's not just like flipping a light switch, like all of a sudden it's gone and all these services are starting to happen again. There's like infrastructure and capacity that needs to be built up. And so there is a lot of work to be done on that implementation side to make sure that everybody is able to access the care they need. And I I'm really glad that you brought that point up.

Catalina: Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.

Jennie: Okay. So I think watching this trend of abortion liberalization, not just in Latin America and the Caribbean, it's really been a global movement for a long time and it's really disappointing… I mean, that's such a bland word to use for what's happening in the states right now, but it's really frustrating and enraging, all the things that there have only been three countries in the 21st century that are, are restricting abortion access to see the US among them. What can US advocates learn from the gGreen wave movement that might help here?

Catalina: Yeah. No, and its, its very difficult to respond because I think that we can have many ideas from the south on how we can support on, on, on what we can teach, from our experience, but at the same time, it's also important to hear what activists in the US are needing right now, um, taking into consideration that I know they, they're being like in an automatic fight because the priority right now is to be able to defend, being here, litigating this case, advocating for this. And there so many things happening in the US, which makes very difficult to strategize right now, but I will say two things that I consider could be useful. The first one is that I think that the US needs to really began incorporating human rights standards as part of domestic, which is not the reality today. In Latin America, in the majority of our constitutions incorporated the human rights framework in the constitution. Which means that all the standards that we have in the UN, at the UN or at the Intra-American system, human rights are being part of our constitution and are being applied in the decisions that are creating standards around reproductive rights. So for example, if you read the decision of the Supreme Court in Mexico, or if you read the decision of the constitutional court in Colombia, you'll see how the judges are incorproating those, uh, international human rights standards in the decision which make them easier to advance in the recognition of the rights. And, and in the US this is not the, the same framework, of course the amendments are old and the constitutional framework in the US haven't incorporated, uh, the human rights framework into their, their domestic system. And I think that there is something to build there, you know, like it maybe, uh, advocating before the Intra-American Commission on Human Rights so the Intra-American commission can begin having these conversations with the US uh, maybe advocating before the US government so that the US government understands the need to ratify some of these international conventions and some of these, uh, regional conventions. I think that there is a lot of room to work around advocating for an incorporation of human rights and standards in the US. That is one first recommendation. And the second one, I think that is continue strengthening the movement and the, and the mobilization because I think that what makes us stronger is possibility to work in a unified movement that is really making a lot of noise around what is important and what is fair and what is a human rights issue and why we need to continue making this fight, having this fight, giving this fight, Right? So I think that those are like my, my initial thoughts, but of course there is a lot that we can do and a lot where we can articulate work.

Jennie: Yeah, I, the, the human rights part is really interesting because like there are certain parts of the government that are like more conversant in it, right? So you'll see like the, the State Department, because they do the global side is much more comfortable having that human rights based conversation around some of these things and other parts like aren't as fluent in it because it's just not the realm that their work is in. It's funny, I was literally having that same conversation last week with some people from the Belgium and EU. So yes, I definitely see that point. And it was great to see, we had two representatives wrote a letter to the State Department citing a lot of the human rights, international human rights standards and talking about needing to apply those to the states and how we are falling down on all of our human rights obligations, uh, for treaties that we've already signed onto by having all of these restrictive abortion bans or laws. So it was really great to kinda see some of that being brought into this domestic space in ways that we just haven't seen in the same way.

Catalina: Yeah, no, totally. Totally.

Jennie: Okay, so we always wrap up the episode by focusing on what can our audience do. So how can they help with any of the green wave stuff or what actions can they take?

Catalina: Well I think that's sharing the stories of what is happening, uh, following our accounts across the region, uh, sharing in social media. Uh, so that's more audience can see what is happening in the region is already way to support us, make us stronger. And of course, march, you know, like if we're, uh, organizing a strike or if we're, uh, doing an event or a public manifestation or something, it would be great if they can support that now, both in the US and across the region. I think that having people in the streets wearing their green bandana and showing that we're a unified movement is, is wonderful and it's what makes the movement stronger. So I think that is part of what we can do. And also talking about this with our friends, with our families, explaining, I know it's complicated, uh, sometimes and, and even in our families and between our friends, we can like have difficult conversation around these issues. But I think that is in those spaces where we can really create an impact and where we can really, uh, create a very sensible conversation because it's a conversation that comes from love, friendship, from understanding, mutual understanding. Those are the more, I dunno how to say this word in English, “gratificante”, you know like, very moving.

Jennie: Yeah, that personal, like talking to your family work, like I think it's often underestimated as to what that can accomplish, but changing hearts and minds even at that level is really important cuz you maybe change someone's mind and they change like four other people's minds and like you can grow a movement that way.

Catalina: Yeah, no totally. For example, I can say today with a lot of proud that I have a dad and a mom that are activists and that are repro rights supporters and that wasn't the case many years ago. So I think that we can do that.

Jennie: Well Catalina, it was so wonderful to talk to you and extra wonderful to talk about good news.

Catalina: Yes, yes. And I hope that this is gonna bring a lot of hope in the US! We can do it. We did it in Latin America. I'm sure that you'll do it in the US.

Jennie: Well thank you for being here.

Catalina: Thank you for inviting me.

Jennie: Okay y'all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Catalina. I really enjoyed having a hopeful happy episode beginning to end like that feels nice. Uh, yeah, that feels really nice after having so many episodes talking about all the issues, it was nice to talk about where abortion rights are spreading from beginning to end. So thank you Catalina. I had a great time talking to you and having an episode all on hope.

Jennie: Thanks for listening everyone. And we'll see you on our next episode of RePROS Fight Back. For more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit our website at reprosfightback.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at RePROS Fight Back, or on Instagram at reprosfb. If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and subscribing, rating and reviewing us on iTunes. Thanks for listening.

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