Blessings at the Abortion Clinic: Bridging Faith and Repro

All faith traditions have diverse opinions and practices on reproductive health, rights, and justice. In fact, the majority of people of faith in the U.S. support access to abortion care. Rev. Katey Zeh, ordained Baptist minister and CEO for the Religious Community for Reproductive Choice (RCRC), sits down to talk with us about the organization’s recent blessings and spiritual support provided at abortion clinics.

The movement and infrastructure of Christian nationalism coopts Christian language for a political agenda, including one which is anti-abortion; still, individuals in faith groups aren’t a monolith. RCRC visited the Women’s Health Center of West Virginia, which had lost its ability to provide abortion care post-Dobbs. The clinic went just over the border and purchased some medical office space to open the Women’s Health Center of Maryland, where abortion care could be provided. RCRC brought the West Virginia staff to Maryland and performed the blessing on the Maryland clinic. The New York Times shared a story on this blessing in December, 2024.

Links from this episode

Katey Zeh on Instagram
RCRC
RCRC on Instagram
RCRC on X
RCRC on Facebook
A Blessing for an Abortion Clinic – New York Times
A Complicated Choice: Making Space for Grief and Healing in the Pro-Choice Movement
Pasadena Humane Society
LA Food Bank
World Central Kitchen
California Fire Relief

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro]

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Jennie: Hi rePROs. How's everybody doing? I'm your host Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, I am still healing from my allergies being so out of whack. I am mostly better. My cough is still lingering a little bit and I'm still a little stuffy every once in a while, but like I feel a lot better. I think I sound better too, but I think I still have a little bit of the, you can tell I've been coughing and I'm a little stuffy, but, but I feel a lot better, so that's good. And so mostly I'm, you know, recovering from the curse of my holidays. But you know, other than the allergies, like my broken toe and tailbone are still healing. My toe, like I honestly, I don't really think about it. It was like my little pinky toe. So, unless I bump it on something or try to move it too much, like, then I can tell that it's still healing. But my tailbone is still in a bad place, so it's just waiting for it to heal and it's just really uncomfortable, you know, sitting and having to readjust all the time to take the pressure off. And it's just a lot. I'm ready for it- I'm ready for it to get better. Let's see. Oh yeah, last week we had snow in DC which was exciting. We got like six to seven inches, which is a lot for DC, so it was just, like, really lovely last Monday to sit and like watch it snow while I was sitting at home, nice and warm and comfy, watching all the kids like sledding on a hill near me that I can see from my window. Like, that was so much fun to see them taking advantage of the snow day, especially on Monday. Like, it was so hard to work seeing, like, all of these families out, having so much joy going sledding, like, it was a lot of fun to watch that and made me think of back when I was a kid. I like to tell a story of- my parents' house was on, is on the top of a hill and it's a pretty wooded property, but when I was in I think kindergarten or preschool, but I think kindergarten, my dad took me out tobogganing down the hill and so like he had to steer, right? Like, 'cause we had trees that you had to, like, go around, but we were out like having a lot of fun. And then on what ended up being our last rundown, we hit a sheet of ice and so, got thrown from the toboggan and, like, went down the rest of the hill like on my face and ran into the house crying, like, my face all scraped up and yelling, mommy, mommy, daddy tried to kill me. No, I wasn't dramatic. [chuckles] So, she's like trying to figure out like what happened and then my dad comes in and he is, like, picking briars off of his hat and his hair and told her what happened and he got thrown the other way and ended up into the knot like part of the woods that isn't groomed. So, it had, like, briar bushes and stuff. I dunno, it just made me think of that and like it was just such a silly memory of being out and having fun with my dad. Let's see what else is going on? Oh yeah, just thinking of friends in LA who are still dealing with all of these fires, it is just devastating to see what is happening out there and all of the people who are being impacted. There are so many great, great resources available. We'll make sure to include a link in our show notes for a place that has them all in one spot. But I have been donating to the LA area Food Bank and the World Central Kitchen to make sure that people are able to get food. But there are lots of great options of organizations to support out there to make sure that people are able to get what they need. I think with that, maybe let's just turn to this week's episode. I am really excited we haven't talked about faith on the podcast in a while and I couldn't think of a better person to have on to have that conversation than the wonderful Reverend Katey Zeh with the Religious Community for Reproductive Choice. She's a friend and it's always lovely to have her on to talk about faith and repro 'cause she's such an important voice in that movement. So with that, let's go to my conversation with Katey.

Jennie: Hi Katey. Thank you so much for being here.

Katey: Hi Jennie. I'm so glad to be back on the podcast! It's been a while.

Jennie: I know. I feel like it has been so long and I was gonna look back and see, but I didn't. But it's still lovely to have you.

Katey: I think it- I'm gonna say 2021. Does that sound right?

Jennie: That feels like it can't be true, but like it could be.

Katey: It could be.

Jennie: No, it was your book. When did your book come out?

Katey: That long? Gosh. Okay. 2022. 2022.

Jennie: Okay. That makes it feel, like, a tiny bit better.

Katey: That does sound better, though now we're in 2025, so now that's almost three years ago.

Jennie: Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, before we start our conversation, would you like to introduce yourself and include your pronouns?

Katey: Sure. I'm Katey Zeh. I use she/her pronouns and I am an ordained Baptist minister and I serve as the CEO of the Religious Community for Reproductive Choice. I used to be the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. We just did a slight name change and we work at the intersection of faith and reproductive freedom. And I have been involved with the organization since I was in my early twenties. So, it's been quite a journey. Obviously it's an interesting time to be doing this work, but it's really an honor. And I live in the Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina.

Jennie: Oh, wonderful. I- the first time I did my intro I was like, oh, they changed their name, and I had like this big pause of, like, what did it go to?

Katey: I know it's just a slight tweak 'cause we feel like “coalition” and “community” have very different feelings.

Jennie: Yeah.

Katey: And when we were formed in the seventies, coalition really did make sense for, you know, we were, we had organizations, institutions that were part of us, but now it's a lot more about just finding like-minded people or people who are interested in exploring their spirituality around these issues. And we don't want people to feel like they have to be part of anything formal to be in our community. And so, that slight tweak just feels like it captures the heart of who we are in these times, so-

Jennie: Yeah, I really like it.

Katey: Good. Yeah, I like it too. But I still have to stop myself, it's still new.

Jennie: The habit.

Katey: It's the habit. And when you've been saying something for like 20 years, [chuckles] it's hard to change it.

Jennie: Well and like even the same initial, so it's, like, RCRC, like-

Katey: Yes. Which makes things easier and more difficult 'cause it's such a slight change. But yes, community is definitely who we are.

Jennie: Well, I am always happy to have you on but like I said, it's been a while since you've been on, but it's also I feel like it's been a while since I've had someone to come on the podcast to talk about faith and repro. And so, it feels like a really good opportunity to take a moment and do that and also just, like, take a little bit of a step back from what's happening and talk about, you know, so much in the past the conversation around faith and repro has been focused on the antis and not having that, having the conversation that there's so much of a more diverse voice in the faith community when it comes to these issues. So, I'd really love to hear your thoughts on that 'cause I know this is something you have thought about and worked on a lot.

Katey: Yeah, I'm not totally sure where to start, so I'm just gonna go with what my gut says. And I think part of what has changed, even in the last couple of years since we talked—I mean there's been a lot—but I think the precision of language around our opposition has gotten better. And by that I mean people are talking about Christian nationalism in a way that they weren't a few years ago. And really being crystal clear that there is political infrastructure and a movement that co-ops Christian language for a political agenda, a part of which is to be anti-abortion and other things. But more than that it's just kind of anti-free democracy. So, I think being more crystal clear when we talk about the antis and who is in a position of power, we're really talking about Christian nationalism. So, I think that's helpful just to have that language and framing that we're not talking about all Christians, we're talking about a very specific kind of group of people who are politically motivated. So that's helpful. So in addition to that, just talking about how yes, there's so much diversity within all faith traditions really around issues of reproductive freedom—within Christianity, within Judaism, I mean with any major religion there are folks, just like anything else, there are gonna be people who have a wide spectrum of opinion and there might be official teachings of a faith, but even those usually have some diversity. And that doesn't mean that the individual people who are part of any faith tradition subscribe to those specific beliefs, right? Like, people have their own opinions about things. So, it's a lot more complicated than what we have seen historically in the media. It's a lot more complicated than that and more nuanced. And what we know from Pew research is that a majority of people of faith do support access to abortion care—has been true for a long time. There are some faith groups where that isn't true. But among mainline Protestants, members of Jewish faith, a lot of Catholics, I mean it's polling shows that people of faith support legal abortion. And I think since Dobbs we've really seen what that looks like, especially when we're looking at ballot initiatives and things. You know, like people in general are supportive of legal abortion and other reproductive health issues. And so I think we're starting to show more nuanced view again and speaking back to that dominant white Christian nationalist narrative that says to be a person of faith means you have to be anti-choice among other things and really nuancing that and pushing back against that because that's never been true and it's certainly not true now.

Jennie: Yeah, I think you're right. Like there was definitely the, like, [idea as] someone who was raised Catholic, like, that the US Conference of Catholic bishops spoke for all Catholics.

Katey: Right.

Jennie: Which is not true.

Katey: Right.

Jennie: And so, there was the really that loss of like granularity of like people are individuals, people bring their whole selves to whatever they are doing and, you know, you may not agree with the teaching on everything. You may have your own opinions, your faith may bring you to see it differently than the way that it is being taught or the way that people at the top are talking about it. And I think you're starting to see some of that come out more publicly, right? Like that had always been-

Katey: Yes.

Jennie: True, but big picture publicly. You're starting to, I think, hear those voices in a way that you hadn't in a long time.

Katey: I think that's right. The people are looking for new and different ways to express their faith beliefs around these issues. And I think that's part of the work of RCRC and my own personal work has been: how do I help people? And I'm ordering Christian Minister so that's the framework that I know best, but how do I give folks who maybe have never heard a religiously supported argument for being pro-choice or however you wanna frame it. Giving people ways for them to enter into that conversation with their faith values. Because I think sometimes people just don't necessarily have the language, they don't know how to articulate it, or as I often talk about, are struggling with their internalized abortion stigma and need to wrestle with that so that they can speak authentically from their faith, from their own lived experience around these issues. I think sometimes it really is just a matter of giving people language.

Jennie: Oh man, that all feels so true. Just, like, thinking through again going to, like, Catholic school and stuff and just being in that environment of, like, all of that internalized stigma around, I mean, not just abortion, right?

Katey: Being an embodied human. [laughs]

Jennie: Yeah, like, I had sex ed from a nun. Like, it was not helpful as I came to navigating my like sexual experiences as I was older because I was not given the tools I needed to like make decisions and the ways that that can be harmful and-

Katey: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: I don't know, that's just so you have that stigma that, like, is attached to all of it that is so hard to shake off.

Katey: Yep.

Jennie: And yeah, I don't know. That's just one of the things, there was something else that really stuck but apparently not that well 'cause I got, I really hooked onto the stigma part.

Katey: Well, I think it's a good piece to get stuck on and it does function to silence us from talking about it. And again, if we don't have practice talking about these things, it can feel that much more uncomfortable and then more reticent to talk about it.

Jennie: The shame.

Katey: Yeah.

Jennie: The Catholic Irish shame.

Katey: -which I've talked about functions politically too. I mean, I think when people do not feel like they can share within their families or their communities about their reproductive experiences, then when there are political issues that impact those people don't feel like they can talk about it from a lived experience, which I think is so often how people shift their viewpoints is learning about people's stories and hearing about their experiences. And if people aren't sharing those, I think it's just that much harder for people to remember that these issues are deeply human, deeply individual and personal. And so, combating the stigma and the silence I think is so key to us getting free together.

Jennie: I love how you talk about your faith bringing you to be pro-abortion and how your faith brought you here.

Katey: Yeah.

Jennie: And I think that is again, another conversation that I think people don't hear as often.

Katey: Yeah.

Jennie: And it's so important.

Katey: Yeah. I mean I love to share that I received my call to ministry within the walls of an abortion clinic and that is really when I felt my call to do this work was holding patients' hands and being with the doctors and nurses and the staff who are so caring and kind and doing the sacred work and then experiencing what it felt like to walk into a clinic, being perceived as a patient there to have an abortion. And they were all these religious people, you know, we shared a faith and I thought, my goodness, this is, that is not what we're called to do. Stand outside and yell at people. We're called to do this compassionate life-giving work that the clinic staff was doing. And so, yeah, for me, I've never felt a conflict between my faith and this work. It is so they're so deeply intertwined that I can't imagine one without the other. And that might be unique, but I think it's uniquely beautiful too.

Jennie: Yeah. I always love hearing you talk about it 'cause I do think it is, it's unique, but it's, I don't know, it feels just, like, so hopeful to me hearing that. And you know, the reason we decided to have this conversation today was talking about the work that you all did recently with blessings at an abortion clinic, which again, just so beautiful and so hopeful. Would you like to talk about that experience?

Katey: I would love to. This has been part of RCRC's work for the last, maybe not quite a decade, but for some years now where we are invited into spaces with people. Sometimes it is to bless the opening of a new clinic. We've done several of those. Sometimes it's to honor an anniversary of a clinic. Sometimes it's simply just to provide spiritual support in places where it's extremely difficult to provide abortion care, which is more and more part of the country now. But this one was so unique and interesting and I would love to share the story of the clinic—so, there's actually two—because I think it's just such a testament to where we are and to the resilience of people who work in this space. So, the two clinics that we blessed—the Women's Health Center of Maryland and the Women's Health Center of West Virginia—and I don't know if you've heard of these clinics, but the clinic in West Virginia had been open for a long time, for decades, I think 50 years. And of course after the Dobbs decision, they were no longer able to provide abortion care. And they do a lot of other things in that community. They do harm reduction care, they do gender affirming care, reproductive healthcare, but they lost their ability to provide abortion care because of the law. And so, they looked and just across the border in Maryland, there was a medical office that they raised money to, to buy and to open a clinic just across the border from West Virginia in Maryland where they knew they would be able to provide abortion care. And so, that facility has been open for about a year and a half at this point. And so, we were in contact with them about doing a blessing for the Maryland clinic, but as we were talking, I was like, we've gotta figure out a way to include the West Virginia clinic. And so, these two staffs had never met each other. It's about three and a half hours between the two. And figuring out a way to honor the grief and the legacy and the ongoing work of the West Virginia Clinic while also celebrating their resilience and opening a clinic in Maryland and that they're able to provide abortion care there, like, trying to hold all of those things. I think that's where faith can do a really good job and spirituality can hold a lot of different things at the same time. And so, we work together with the staffs and we brought the West Virginia staff to Maryland and we did a blessing of the building and an honoring of the grief. And we had a member of the clergy consultation service on abortion there with us, which if you all don't know, was a network of clergy pre-Roe that helps people get access to abortion care. So, it was just so powerful to have all of these people in the same room, to give them space to just express their mixed feelings—a lot of grief, a lot of joy, everything in between. And we had the honor of having the New York Times come and capture that and share that story visually and through words in the Times back in December.

Jennie: I was so excited when I saw you post it that the Times did the piece. I remember talking to you, it might have just been via email as it was in the works and was excited about the idea of it. And you know, it's one of those things that I think about a lot is, like, the toll on the people who are doing the work day-to-day at the clinics, the clinics in the states where they can no longer provide the care that they firmly believe in. And just like, I just think of how wearying that would be to me, to have to tell people I can't help them or here are the ways I can help you, but I can't give you what you need right now, but pass you on and hope you'll be able to get the care. I just know that would just weigh so heavy on my soul and would just, you know, everyone has their place in the work and I talk about a lot of like, I just don't think I could do that. Like, it would be one of those things that would just, that would be the thing that would break me is the day-to-day not being able to give the help that I firmly believed in. So, I can just imagine how helpful a blessing or like having that pain acknowledged and shared would be.

Katey: Yeah, there were a lot of tears. I mean these rituals are often teary, but this was the first one that we've done with a clinic directly impacted by the Dobbs decision where they were no longer able to provide abortion care. And so, it did have...it, it was heavy. And I think because these folks work so hard, I mean they are so committed, I don't know that they had had an opportunity to reflect on what that loss really meant in community with folks. And so, I hope it was cathartic and maybe a little bit healing just to express that, to have it heard and witnessed so that they can continue to do all of the other amazing work that they do day in and day out. And I think that's what I heard from the staff was we just don't have time to really reflect on what this has meant. And so, giving people just an opportunity to pause and be I hope loved and cared for and celebrated and honored, I hope will be healing for them. And the other thing I failed to mention is we always with these blessings bring in local faith leaders who are either connected to the clinic already or are supportive of what the clinic is doing because we know that coming in and doing a one-time thing like that is lovely, but it's that ongoing support that we hope to build by connecting local faith leaders to the clinic. And so, that's my hope is that they'll have some spiritual support moving forward that's local 'cause we know it's gonna be tough for everybody moving forward. Even if you're in a state like Maryland you’re receiving patients from all over. It's difficult for everybody. And so it just feels like this thing that we can do that hopefully is, is affirming for them, gives them some time together and hopefully kind of recharges them as they continue the work.

Jennie: Ugh. This is like giving me so much hope that I feel like I needed.

Katey: I'm glad.

Jennie: Because, like, as we were talking earlier, I was starting to think of all the things that may be coming back that are using faith as a weapon.

Katey: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: Instead of the blessing as you're talking about, like just thinking through like some of the religious refusal stuff we will probably see coming back and things like that. And the story gave me a lot of hope.

Katey: I'm glad. It gives me hope too. And I think that some of the work that I've done over, I don't know, let's say the last four or five years after experiencing extreme burnout is just figuring out a way to do this work with joy and with hope and not like a cheap hope that bypasses the immediate crisis, but that is stubborn and is a discipline that we practice together. Because I feel like if I can't do this work with joy, then I'm not actually contributing to the kind of world that I want to live in. And so, finding ways to keep that hope alive and do things that are life-giving and joyful has been. It's not fluff, it's essential, it's critical actually for me. And I've found that it's really helped me stay engaged in this work. I mean, you and I have been doing this work for a long time and there are people who have been doing it a lot longer. And it's easy I think to focus on all of the things that are so horrible. So, finding ways to, like, do the work anyway and to do it with hope and joy is just...I'm repeating myself now, but it just feels essential.

Jennie: Yeah. I'm just thinking back through like when we were first working together and you were like across the street ish at the Methodist building...so long ago.

Katey: Yeah. I know.

Jennie: Yes.

Katey: And we were babies. [chuckles]

Jennie: Oh man.

Katey: We were babies back then. I definitely didn't have the resilience that I do now. I mean, things used to get to me so much and the opposition used to get to me so much. I think that's something I've been thinking about too is, like, of course when an article about a Baptist minister blessing an abortion clinic makes it into the Times, the opposition loves that. So my inbox, my phone, phone inbox and email inbox, I've just been full. So it's been interesting to think back on how that would've felt when we started our work together versus now just finding ways to, to deal with that and not let it steal my joy.

Jennie: Yeah. I feel like that's one of those things I have found or have gotten to the place of, like, that isn't the part that stresses me or worries me. Like, mine is like letting my community down and, like, not doing, not doing enough for the community or like not providing the right support or like getting something wrong that is unhelpful or, like, those are the things that worry and stress me versus what the antis have to say. Like whatever.

Katey: Yeah. No, that's probably the better thing to focus on. And I just wanna affirm your work. I mean, your work is so- this podcast and more of what you do, but rePROs Fight Back is such an amazing resource. So, I hope you give yourself your pats on the back because I think-

Jennie: I'm not as good at that, but I try.

Katey: Well, we were just talking earlier about being Midwestern. I don't think you all give yourself much credit for your hard work, but Yeah, I that's part of it too is just remembering that we all are in community with each other and I think connecting with people this way, especially like working from home, just remembering the community of people who are all doing their parts and that all I have to do is my part and as long as I do my part well then I'm doing what I, what I need to do. And I think, you know, RCRC is over 50 years old and has had lots of different configurations and sizes of staff and we're very small now. And so it's been another discipline to go: what is it that we can uniquely do? And not try to feel like we have to do everything. And that has felt so good, even as things are so difficult externally. But just getting crystal clear and I found that the work is really impactful when we can be super focused on what it is that we can uniquely do and what we uniquely love to do. You know, and I know how much you love podcasting, like-

Jennie: Yeah. This has been, you know, I always tell the story of like how I really got pushed into this and it wasn't necessarily-

Katey: I remember.

Jennie: -something I-

Katey: I remember us talking about this.

Jennie: Yeah. It was not on my bingo card as they say and I've definitely pushed into it. But it is now like my favorite part of my job. Like, I was able to build it the way I wanted to. And again, that, like, wanting it to be a service to the community was core to the way I built it, of bringing on all of these wonderful people that I get to talk to, to show off the amazing network of people that I am lucky enough to work with. And that brings me so much joy to get to talk to amazing people about the work they are doing and the ways they're fighting back. And yeah, it's the thing that fills me with, like, the hope and the being crystal clear with myself of: I don't need to do all the things. Like I am sure you had some of this too, of like, I have to be at this thing, I have to go to this, I have to show up at the protest, I have to do this or, and like really letting that go and focusing on: these are the things that I can do that are helpful. I am doing so many things already. My body at this place isn't adding anything other than to my anxiety. So, let it go.

Katey: Oh my gosh, yes.

Jennie: So, I've really gotten to be much better about that, and I still get the, like, "I should be there," but like I'm better at not listening to that voice telling me that I'm not doing enough because I'm not going.

Katey: That's so good. I know the mean voice is in our heads. Anxiety driven, mean voice—I have one of those too. And-

Jennie: Yeah, I refer to it as my Statler and Waldorf. They just, like, heckle me a lot.

Katey: [Laughs] Well, getting back to like, just thinking about spirituality and all of this, you know, I'm big on people knowing within themselves what they need and that includes access to abortion or really anything. Yeah. And I think sometimes for me, I have to work really hard on creating the space to tune into that inner voice. And as someone who suffers from anxiety, the urge to do all the time and do right now can really cloud my ability to hear that voice. And so, moving into this year 2025, I'm like, I wanna build a more resilient nervous system and that requires me to take time to be quiet and not be doing all of the time. I mean, this is a basic thing y'all, but I have really lost sight of it and so I'm working really hard on creating that quiet and for me that is, like, connecting with my spirituality 'cause I think that divine inner wisdom is, is already there. It's just creating the conditions to hear it. So, it sounds like you're doing a similar, similar thing in your world and gosh, my forties have been great for setting boundaries. [laughs]

Jennie: Yeah. I have to say similarly, my goal for this year is to meditate more. So, like, yes. Kind of getting that quiet Yes. And, like, shutting all that extraneous out.

Katey: Yes. Yeah. And just being, having an awareness of the voice that's talking to you. You know, I think sometimes I forget that that's- I don't have to listen to that voice. I can actually say, you know what, I hear you but I'm not gonna let you dictate how I spend my time and energy.

Jennie: Yeah. And it's hard and it's like-

Katey: And it's hard.

Jennie: I'm sure it's always going to be hard and I'm sure this is a path I will continue to be on. But I'm really, yeah. Trying to not listen to them as much.

Katey: That's so good. Meditation is such a good practice. I've recently gotten back into it too after taking a little bit of a break and I'm like, why did I stop this?

Jennie: I know.

Katey: This is so important.

Jennie: It's still, like, you need to get into the habit again. And I'm trying to get into the habit.

Katey: Yes. Yeah. Same. So, we can check in with each other in a few months, see how we're doing with that.

Jennie: But one of my cats, I don't know if it's like the energy I give off when I'm doing it or what is like, she comes and like gets in my face and is like-

Katey: When you're meditating?

Jennie: Yes. And like, "I need attention right now, thank you."

Katey: [Laughs] That's funny.

Jennie: I was, like, you are so unhelpful.

Katey: That's very unhelpful.

Jennie: Okay, before we wrap up, you know, we always do like, how can people get involved? What can they do? So, there isn't maybe necessarily a specific action, but, like, how can people bring their faith to, to what they're doing in trying to fight back for reproductive rights?

Katey: Yeah. I always encourage people if you're, if you're starting from kind of the beginning of this is just to ask yourself: what were the messages that I got either from the faith community I was part of, if you were part of one or just from faith communities around you? And just be crystal clear about what, what they are because I think sometimes we can internalize them and not even realize it. And so I would start there just like interrogating where do they come from and is that something that I still believe and if so, do I still want to continue with that or do I wanna challenge it? So I think that's, it's just to start kind of internally with what are the messages I got and do I want some different ones? And in my book A Complicated Choice, I talk people through that process if you want another resource and also just to-

Jennie: And it's a really good book.

Katey: Oh thank you. It's an abortion storytelling book. So, I think one of the best ways that we can, like, think about our faith is really: the core tenet of our faith, no matter what you're part of, is compassion and love for one another. And I think the way that we start that is just learning about people's experiences. So, learn about people's reproductive lives, read some abortion stories. There are great resources—I'm sure you've linked to Shout Your Abortion, Exhale's got a database of stories—and just kind of immerse yourself and think about what it's like for other people. And I think really starting from there will help guide your next steps.

Jennie: Well Katey, as always, it is such a pleasure to talk to you. I always feel lucky to have you on the podcast and to have you as a friend. So, thank you for being here.

Katey: Aw, I agree. It feels so good to reconnect. Let's not let three years pass before we do this. [laughs] Thanks for having me.

Jennie: Okay y'all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Katey, and you know, next week we're gonna be starting the new administration, so make sure to rest and take care of yourself. It's gonna be a lot being thrown back into that. You know, make sure that you are taking time and space for yourself, not trying to do all the things. We are going to have- there's gonna be a lot of things happening right away around our issues and we will cover them as they come up. But next week, we're gonna have a conversation looking back on last year because it was the 30th anniversary of the Reproductive Justice movement and the International Conference on Population and Development. So, I'm really excited for that conversation 'cause it's, we do a little look back and a little look forward and visioning around reproductive justice. So it felt like a hopeful conversation and it felt like a really important episode to have come out the day after the inauguration. So make sure to check that out. Okay, I will see you all next week. [music outro].

Jennie: If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com. Thanks all!