Everyone Loves Someone Who Had an Abortion: Abortion Storytellers Part 1

“We believe that everyone who has abortions deserves unconditional love and support. We believe that people who have abortions deserve to be in every space where decisions are being made. To borrow from the disability justice movement, there should be nothing about us without us. We are the leaders we’ve been waiting for.” -We Testify.

For this incredibly special part one of our storytellers podcast series, tune in to hear the abortion stories of Anna, Sarah Lopez, Nick, and Stephanie Gomez—abortion storytellers from We Testify.

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast where we explore all things reproductive health, rights and justice. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and I'll be helping you stay informed around issues like birth control, abortion, sex education and LGBTQ issues and much, much more-- giving you the tools you need to take action and fight back. Okay, let's dive in.

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Jennie: Welcome to this week's episode of rePROs Fight Back. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. Y'all, I am so excited for this week’s episode. Like I cannot wait for you to hear it so much so that we're just like gonna skip over the introduction I usually do. I really just wanna focus on the stories that are at the heart of this episode and not fill with all the other stuff I usually talk about at the beginning. I've been wanting to do this episode for a long time, and I'm just happy that I finally made it happen. We have a number of abortion storytellers that are going to tell you their abortion stories this week and actually in our next episode as well. I am just so incredibly grateful for all of them to take time out of their day, to tell their stories to us. I think it's really important that we feature abortion tellers stories. And I'm sorry that I hadn't done it sooner because I do think it's really important. And in that vein, I am super thankful to Renee Bracey Sherman, and We Testify for connecting me with all of these wonderful storytellers. We Testify does a great job,making sure that abortion storytellers are featured in talking about abortion and that the storytellers are representative of people who get abortions. So they do an amazing job, make sure to check them out and support them. So just huge, huge, thank you to all of the storytellers that participated and to, and to, We Testify for helping to make this happen. And with that, I'm gonna turn it over to the storytellers.

Anna: Hi, I'm Anna. Uh, my pronouns are she/her, and I'm from the DFW area. I'm a youth, so I'm 21. And my story starts when I was 17. The month I turned 17, I went to a local Planned Parenthood with my best friend, because I knew I was going to be sexually active in my relationship. And I wanted to be in control and prevent anything that would happen. So in my head, I was thinking to getting like to go and get some birth control pills. But when I went in, they immediately asked me about my legal guardians or if my parents consented. And if they were there because they need like actual permission. And I was confused because I was like, well, if Planned Parenthood can't give me what I need without my parents, then I don't think there's any other place that can, because that's all I really knew. So I left thinking that I couldn't get birth control. And that was before a lot of birth control subscription websites popped up. So I was not as lucky because most places required insurance. So then I was just using plain old, you know, physical protection, condoms, and one day it broke. So obviously went to the nearest store in a hurry. And the nearest store to me was [inaudible], which is like a chain grocery store, kind of like a Walgreens or Albertsons, anything like that. And I went in just looking for Plan B. And when you go down the quote unquote family planning aisle, it was mainly empty and they had a big like green card stock piece of paper that said, if you are wondering, like, if you wanna get anything from the section, go talk to customer service. And I went to the pharmacy section because it was the closest and I talked to the pharmacy tech and I asked them if I could go grab some Plan B and if they could grab it for me, because if they were out and she immediately asked me for my ID and I remember being kind of confused because I was 17 and a half at that point, I was yet 18, but I was still a minor. So I was confused-- why? So I gave it to her and she was like, well, I can't give it to you. And I remember feeling really confused because we all know that Plan B is over the counter. Anyone that can get pregnant should be able to buy and take it. And I remember pulling up the guidelines, like all the things that said it was over the counter drug. Um, I wanted Plan B One Step, not the other one I specified. And she called out to the pharmacist and the pharmacist came out and told me the exact same thing. And I just stood there arguing back and forth until they threatened to call security on me and I remember feeling really frustrated because I took so many steps to be in control of my own body, knowing that what I would do in the future and taking these steps to prevent pregnancy. But all these adults that had the power to help me, they all used it against me…So right afterwards I was stressed and, um, I was young, so I barely had enough money to buy the Plan B. And it took me a little bit. So by the time I was rejected, I did try and go to target the next day. And I did buy it there. But by that time I was all ready I got that sinking feeling. So this is when all the, the crap hits the fan. So I remember going to a local Dollar Tree buying loads of their $1 pregnancy tests and taking it almost like every other day. I took it every other day, if not like every day, because I was just so paranoid. And one day on a Saturday morning, it became positive. So that was literally the day that I discovered I was pregnant. Like my body told me, the HCG levels showed on the stick. And I called my friend, cuz I was, was hyperventilating. I was so stressed. Cause I did everything. I even spent freaking like 60 bucks on a Plan B and it didn't work, but I did take it within three days, but it's still within three days. Right? It's not as soon as I could have, which could have happened, but they denied me. So I'm just freaking out. She sits, rides in this Lyft I, Uber, like I, I ordered for her. She comes over and at that point I was like all over the internet, looking for what I could be doing.

Anna: But logic wasn't really there. But my friend, she had the logic. So she came over and she told me immediately, “Hey Anna, I found out about this one organization called Jane’s Due Process. You should give them a call.” She called them. And then she immediately gave the phone to me and I started talking. So the day, the morning I found out I was pregnant, I was immediately in contact with Jane’s Due Process and I was in the DFW area. Fortunately, I was living in Dallas County, which means that I have access to the progressive court houses instead of any other county in comparison. Because in Texas, there's some laws that make it really difficult for young people to get their judicial bypass. So one of the laws is just that you can't go to a different county to get the bypass. Yeah. So I got mine in Dallas because I lived in Dallas and like you can't, but if you're born and raised like in Fort Worth or something or whatever town where your aunt is, the county judge, you, you can't hide it anymore. So that's the crazy part. I immediately go like I, I got my intake done and I was in contact with uh, the clinic nearby in Dallas. So I could get my first sonogram. Cause that's also like an important thing, you need to be, need to know exactly how far along you like you are. Exactly. Especially for the bypass process because the day you go to the [court], you need to know how exactly far you are. Day-wise. If you're one day off, they could use as, as a reason to not give you your bypass because you're just, “oh, why would you not know how many days along you are?” Because this process is exhausting and it's being prolonged because if we could just go in, get it, checked down, get an abortion. Obviously we couldn't, we would know exactly how far we are, but we're going back and forth over and over again. And the time is just ticking. These days are still going by. It's hard to remember what day it is anymore because these people, what we're going through is just like we're forced in this position to just being strung along because this is such a time sensitive thing. So I remember doing that. So I then got my sonogram and I was set up to meet with my lawyer at my house. It was, you could meet your lawyer anywhere like a public place or their office. Whichever one works for the both of you. For me, it was just better for me because my family worked during the time that she was available and she was able to drive over and it was very safe. And it was a really like supporting environment. She was really nice. And she told me exactly what I needed to do because on top of the sonogram, the first [meeting] where the counselor gives you all the information, the, the lawyer still has to add more stuff on top of that. So you have to take notes. It's kind of like a cram session where you have to learn a lot of these like misleading information because you're required to say that in the court of law over there, for example, it was ingrained into my head. I had to know exactly how far along I was. I had to know what medical instruments they were using in my specific abortion procedure. And I had to know what my procedure was called and what it entailed and what kind of medication was gonna be put into my body through my IV. I had three different types. I don't remember it exactly nowadays, but I remember like the [inaudible] it was the vacuum aspiration abortion and I had to memorize it so hard that now I just like wipe it all away. But I remember like this was my lifeline. So I would like slave away during this winter months when it was like finals season hovering over my book as a student, not just studying for finals, but studying for this abortion procedure that I have to know. And there's like fake information in it. Like if you have an abortion, well it's not fake because if you drink water, you die. Right. But it says, if you have an abortion, you have a higher chance. Like there's a possibility of death and you have to acknowledge it in front of the judge. So they're like, you gotta say that, but they don't want you to acknowledge that giving birth is the causes death more than having an abortion. They don't say that. Why bother with them? I know. And the whole idea behind the judicial bypass process is like, they're reasoning literally goes like, “oh, we need to make sure that this young person is quote unquote, mature enough to make a decision to have an abortion.” So how can they judge how mature they are if they can like have an abortion, if they don't take that into consideration when they're about to give birth and they're forced to become mothers, you know, I, I'm just confused. It's like, you're not mature enough to have an abortion, but you're mature enough to be a mother or to give birth and go through nine months of pregnancy as a young person.

Jennie: I just, the part that like, I mean, all of it is like utterly wild, but like needing to know like all the medications and like the instruments and like all… like what other medical procedure does anybody like check with you to make sure you know, all the things, right?

Anna: I just wanna say like the way that we treat, like some like a, a wisdom teeth removal. I wonder how many people have gotten their wisdom teeth removed without understanding the consequences of actually being put under, like for wisdom teeth removal you're being put under like, you're, this is still an invasive procedure. So I don't understand because you can also have a, uh, an abortion through medication abortion. It's nowhere as invasive said, and you just have to go through these same exact things. So you have to know what goes on in your body too. But like that just completely blows my mind because yeah, it's like, dang, am I supposed to like, am I being trained now? I think I do know more about my abortion process than a lot of other people now. So that's it. But I just studied. I had to study and I had to remember my resume cause it was like a job interview, except it wasn't like a job. It was just me begging for my rights of, to control my own body. Um, sure some that knows nothing about me. Other than me being Jane Doe, a young person who had sex and got pregnant because the sexual education system in Texas, um, in the US has failed us. So it is freaking crazy. Growing up, I had no sexual education in Dallas, Dallas county. Uh, it was very much learning about your period. You know, watching a little clip about a girl, going to sleepover and then accidentally having her period. And then her friend's mom comes over and says, “oh, don't worry. This is natural. This is how you put on a pad.” I don't know if you remember something like that.

Jennie: Oh man. I went to Catholic school. So I feel you so much. That is exactly what I had except my sex ed was from a nun. So it was like super, you know, sex-ed-y.

Anna: That's so funny. Funny.

Jennie: No, it was real basic like biology. Like I always refer to it as like the Mean Girls sex ed, right? Like, you'll get, you have sex you're gonna get this horrible disease and you're gonna die. Super helpful in life.

Anna: Exactly. Like let's just like fearmonger everyone. Um, because obviously humanity like doesn't need sex. Right? [laughs]. Um, oh my gosh. Uh, but the closest thing I did get to sex education was when I was a freshman in high school, there's a mandatory health class. And I learned about circumcision there. Um, that was the only thing that I learned that was moderately close. And also in biology, some girl asked about, you know, if they could get pregnant through oral and that only shows how much that, that the sex ed has done us well in Texas because 14 year old’s are thinking that they could get pregnant through oral, you know? And then the biology teacher had to debunk that because it is obviously not true. So I did that and I remember going to the courthouse, I drove there because I was lucky enough. I am privileged enough as a woman of color that I'm east Asian that was able to have access to so many things. People didn't question me as much even in school. My teachers, when I told my teachers that I needed to go somewhere, they, when they questioned me, I told them the truth. The, the most that they ever did was they told it to another teacher and sat me down and tried to have conversation with me about my choices. But that was the most interference that I've ever had during this whole entire process, this whole entire journey. It was very much, I was able to keep it to myself. And I had a really close support system, which is my one, my one best friend at that time who was able to help me along the way. So I drove myself there because I was privileged enough to have transportation. And I got there, and Dallas requires you to valet. So that's another thing. If you're in big city and you're going to courthouse, like you gotta take into consideration all the tiny little things. I, I had a job, so I was able to valet and go to the courthouse cause I needed to go there fast. Like I was running late and there parking spots in the city. So I got inside and the courthouse where the courtroom that I was in was very small. It's like a meeting room. So imagine like a long oval table. And the judge is sitting at the very end and you sit basically next to her, like diagonal almost, so. And she just starts interrogating kind of like you start telling your story. And I'm like begging my case, telling them how much I've worked--excuse me--worked to get into my program at like at this university that I wanted to go to. Um, I told them how I need needed this financial support that my family would give me. But if they found out that I was pregnant and I was having sexual relations, they would not. I stressed how much higher education meant to me and how without higher education, it would ruin my life because that's all I ever wanted. Um, I don't, I'm not ready to be a mother. I'm not ready to give birth because I'm still living my life. I still haven't found what I wanted to do completely yet. I still haven’t settled down. I'm not prepared. And I listed all my credentials, all the AP classes that I took, all of the extracurriculars that I was in, how I put in hundreds of volunteer hours within a year, how I was like doing leadership roles, how I've done all of these like dual credit classes I added on, I add on, and I just keep on begging and just objectifying myself in a way that they would like me and think that I'm mature. Right? Um, and it was very dehumanizing because, uh, why would you need, why would you question and be the one?

Jennie: Why do you need all of that?

Anna: And like, how could you as a judge, like how is a judge qualified to judge your maturity level, um, through your academic history? That's very ableist. First of all. Second of all, the age restrictions is very like classist also, like just so many things about this bypass process is wrong and makes you so vulnerable as a young person. So I was sitting in there and I waited until the judge signed her name, waved the waiver and said, “okay, look at this, I signed it.” She puts it away. Keep in mind, this is a woman of color democratic judge in Dallas. She looked at me and she was like, “I just like for a girl, like, like I hear your whole story. I just, I was wondering like, why do you even have sex?” Um, she questioned on why I had sex. And she alluded to my academic success as something like, oh, these two, they don't correlate. Okay.... And sitting there, what else can I do other than respond? So she gave me my bypass anyways. Right? She signed it already. So I told her, like, “I thought, this is like, it's normal. This is what people do. Especially if they're in a relationship, they get to have a different type of connection.” Uh, and I was just like, looking forward to that type of like connection. Right? And, and I'm young. I, I don't know, like, why do people have sex? Why is humanity a thing on earth? You know?

Jennie: Yeah, exactly.

Anna: And she responds with, “but girl, like, you don't even feel good. Like girls don't even feel good when they have sex.” Um, and I like, like for me, wait...

Jennie: I'm sorry, what?

Anna: Like what kinda sex is she having? Do you know, what kinda sex she's having?

Jennie: Like, not good sex.

Anna: Apparently not because it's so bad that she gets to generalize our whole entire group of people and say that we all don't feel good while we have sex. And I didn't say much. And I remember my lawyer got up, we like left. Cause I got my bypass. I like thanked the judge because she gave it to me anyways. Right. We left and my lawyer looked at me. She was like, “what the heck did she just say?” and I'm being like, I don't care. I don't care. I got it. I got in the bag. I gotta go now. And I too that, and gave it to the clinic and JDP actually connected me with funds. And I was, I only paid a hundred dollars for my whole abortion procedure. And, um, that was, I, I got checked in and then I realized that I ate breakfast in the morning. So then I had to sit from 9:00 AM till like 5:00 PM. And then I got my abortion after and I was starving. So I remember like laying down, talking, with IV, next thing you know, I wake up, I'm in a wheelchair and I'm hungry. So hungry!

[Both laugh]

Anna: Because I I've been sitting in this cause I ate one bite of breakfast and I'm like, oh no, I called. They're like, oh, you ate?. And I ever being so hungry and I was begging the nurse. I was like, gimme something, to eat. I was so hungry.

Jennie: Cause you like, if I knew I was gonna do that, I should ate the whole thing!

Anna: I know if I was gonna wait there all day. Right? So she brings over, oh, delicious mini Oreos and goldfish.

Jennie: Ooh. Packs of them.

Anna: But she knew was gonna go on. So she brought over a vomit bag as, as well. [Laughs]. And I like scarfed it all down. Like those bags were gone and the vomit bag ended up being full later. So, but I went back home and it was a heavy period. It was a heavy, heavy period for, uh, the upcoming days. But it was like, like I was young. My family thought nothing on, but obviously young people have heavy periods, like hormonal stuff. And I went to school and then like, I went to school the next day. And I went on my daily life and I've been advocating ever since because I, I went through those whole, this whole process and I was like, “Hmm, I don't like being oppressed. Let's try and get rid of this because I don't wanna see any more young people go through the exact same thing that I did because I worked so hard to prevent any of this from happening.” And people just failed me. Like people failed me. People just didn't listen to me. People didn't care about what I had to say about myself. And it led me down to where I am now. And I'm so hurt and traumatized for, because I had to fight to continue to have a voice because if I got scared off, which especially with SB8, then I probably like… with the fear of hurting my friend, that hooked me up with JDP for example, what if I just didn't go, go forward with it because someone could sue my friend and sue her for $10,000. And we're like teens, who can afford that? You take away that support someone that adds on… and to add, I got my abortion at six weeks and a day over six weeks. And if you keep in mind and listen to my whole story, you know, that I found out the day I was pregnant, I got my intake done. The day I found out I was pregnant. I got my sonogram as soon as I could schedule it. And I got my court hearing immediately afterwards. And then I got my procedure a week after my court hearing. And that was a whole entire two weeks. Cause I found out at four weeks, two weeks went by and bam, I got my procedure after six weeks. So even if that was, if there's a person like me now, right now in the state of Texas going through the exact same thing, they wouldn't be able to have it because they had to go through a bypass process when they're a minor, when they could have just gotten the whole entire process done when they still could have, when they found out.

Jennie: Yeah. I was thinking the exact same thing about all of the minors in Texas who still have to navigate this judicial bypass system now with SB8. You're right. Like that's gonna make this virtually impossible for most of them.

Anna: It is including the fact that we are still in a pandemic, COVID keeps on pushing government stuff back because paperwork… like everything's being backed up. So just processing the bypass in the court has been pushed back. So now you're looking at like minimum, like what, like, like if you're lucky you could be like me and get it done in two weeks right now. Which holy crap. Like if you can, I wanna hear that because I don't know who's that fast and all the way up to like over four weeks, but like still gotta try because it could still be processed for two weeks. Right? But then once you hit that couple week, mark, it's too late for you now to do it here in Texas. So how do you expect a young person to navigate that? Like, so it's just like, this is very oppressive towards young people and it's really like the whole SB8 thing, it’s classist, ableist, sexist, racist. People always say why don't well, you can always like prevent this by that. Yeah, I did. I tried to prevent it. I tried to get on birth control pills. I couldn't. I did use condoms. It broke. I tried to get Plan B one place didn't sell it to me. So I had to go to another one and it didn't work after that. Holy crap, how many more times do I have to try so something can change so that these misunderstandings and these obstacles wouldn't be in place because yeah, like back in 1970s, when Roe got passed, abortion was legal and Medicaid covered. It's 2022. Abortion is not very illegal in Texas, especially after six weeks and insurance doesn't cover abortion. It feels like we've gone back so much.

Jennie: Yeah. Anna, thank you so much for sharing your, story.

Anna: Thank you for listening.

Sarah: Hi, my name is Sarah. I am the Client Coordinator at Jane’s Due Process and a storyteller with We Testify and my pronouns are she/her and I currently live in Austin, Texas.

Jennie: Awesome. So Sarah, do you wanna tell us your abortion story?

Sarah: Yes, I will. So I had an abortion five years ago, actually January 4th, five years ago. So just past the five-year anniversary, abortion anniversary. And I got an abortion right after graduating from college. And when I say right after, I mean, like I had a hunch that I was pregnant during finals week and got an abortion two weeks after graduating. And so, yeah, I mean, at the, at the time I, you know, I was obviously going through a lot, like with graduation on the horizon, I was working in restaurants, but honestly it was super broke. And when I found out I was pregnant, I immediately knew that I wanted an abortion. It was like, you know, it wasn't even a question in my mind. I, uh, had helped other friends, like during their abortions, just like as emotional support, it was like never really like a thing that I struggled to kind of like accept or understand. And so that was kind of the easy part, but, you know, after graduating and like going through the process of like, I didn't know where if Austin even had clinics, if I could get an abortion in Texas, I definitely didn't know there were like groups that help you pay for your abortions. So I was just, I was totally lost. Thankfully, you know, I was able to Google and find like a clinic that was like 15 minutes away. And so the, you know, I, uh, just kind of started that process, but I think like once know I, uh, started, you know, thinking about cost and like setting aside the time for my appointments and everything. It kind of, I feel like started to hit me. You know, I, I remember because of like the waiting period, I had to wait like two weeks between my ultrasound and my procedure. So, you know, I had that initial appointment and, you know, felt like ready to just get it over with, but because of the waiting period and because, you know, clinics are usually closed during the holidays, I did have to like push my appointment to a couple weeks and kind of go through the holidays pregnant when I didn't wanna be, it was super awkward being around family. Cause I didn't really, you know, tell anyone or anything. I was just like, very, I feel like I had definitely retreated quite a bit. And then, you know, the other issue was like was cost. I was not making hardly anything; I wasn't really making any money in the restaurant. I was working and living with my boyfriend and I were living in a house with like a three bedroom house with like five other people. We had the cheapest rent ever. And it was still, you know, not, I could, I just didn't have the money, like $700 lying around for the procedure. So he was so supportive of me, and he helped me, you know, he paid for it, which was honestly like a godsend. I could not have done it without him, but I think there were just like other factors that made me feel like I was doing something wrong. Like even though I had, you know, the support of my boyfriend, I lived in the city, uh, that had a clinic and that, you know, I was able get the care when I needed, you know, I, I still remember like the provider kind of going through like all the information that they're required to saying like “abortion may cause breast cancer, may cause infertility,” all these different things. And then like at the end, just being like, “oh, by the way, none of that is like scientifically accurate. I'm just like required by the state to tell you that.” I also remember the doctor saying like, “honestly, a lot of, you know, times like abortions can actually be safer than pregnancy because of health issues that come up later on.“

Sarah: And so I think it was just, it was so confusing. I had like, like no context for why this was so difficult and like emotionally taxing and just like, I internalized a lot of stigma because of all of that. And so, you know, what, in the beginning felt like a super easy decision for me and like my future became this real like sore spot and like, you know, I still, I just remember like having to take so much time off work just to kind of like recover emotionally. I would like, I remember I tried to go back to work like the day after my abortion. And like I had the, the IV, like the little, you know, know scar on my arm that they give you from like the IV and just like being at work and like all of that kind of rushing back. I just remember having to like, you know, like my manager was honestly very cool about it, you know, send me home without like really asking what was going on. And so I think it was just, it was a really, really tough and lonely time for again, something that was like a no-brainer for me. It was just, it was, I, I internalized a lot of stigma and I felt like I couldn't talk about, you know, my experience. I also, in some ways like, felt like I was the only person in the world who had ever gotten abortion. Like, it was just, it was so confusing. And so, like I said, I definitely kind of retreated after that. It took me like just many months to kind of just not think about it for like one day. Like I still remember the day that I was like, whew, okay. I haven't like had to, you know, think about it for a whole day. Like that's when I felt like I was finally moving on, but actually like, you know, after I think a year something had passed, I was, you know, still working in restaurant, just like looking for volunteer opportunities. When I was in college, I was starting to get more into like harm reduction kind of organizing work. So, but through kind of looking for opportunities like that, it came across like a volunteer opportunity for Jane's Due Process. And it was like through learning about their work that I was able to, it, it was like the first time I heard of an abortion restriction and I kind of like, I still remember like finding the posting and being like, okay, I thought my experience was hard, but like with you're teenager and you have high school to worry about and you have to go to court just to like, prove that you can get an abortion. And so I just like, you know, I, I think I joined as a volunteer, like searching for community and like healing and just like wanting to learn more about this experience that I had, but like didn't fully understand. And so, um, yeah, I became a volunteer with them. I absolutely loved it. I like, and then I later joined on Texas Choice full-time and was, you know, thrown into the practical support of it. I joined We Testify. And you know, now, like almost four years later, I'm currently the Client Coordinator Jane's Due Process kind of like in a full circle moment. Like still, I, I think helping people, just supporting people, get their abortions and like providing that kind of support that I wish I had, it's become just the most important kind of thing that I could commit myself to. And it's beautiful work and it's heartbreaking work, but I think it was truly through just like learning about all the, you know, just the, the like reproductive justice and abortion movement that like, I was able to just kind of heal from my own experience. Finally, let go of a lot of that internalized shame and stigma that like just kept me isolated way too long. And I think, you know, just thinking and about how much like time has passed and how things are so dire right now. I think I'm just always, you know, trying to make sure no matter how difficult things get people know that they're not alone and that there's like so many different avenues for, you know, getting that like support that we all definitely deserve regardless of circumstance of income situation.

Jennie: Yeah. Well, I am so grateful to you for sharing your story. I have to say that I think one of the refrains we've seen throughout me talking to abortion storytellers for this episode and the next one is people like knowing that this is what they want and then feeling all this external, like shame and stigma that then they start to internalize. I think that's something that's been like, been really heartbreaking about hearing these stories is like seeing how the system is perpetuating the shame and stigma by having all of these extra restrictions. And then just what you're hearing out in the, in the atmosphere, whether it's protestors or, or whatever that are keeping the shame and stigma that people are then to deal with afterwards.

Sarah: Yeah. It's, it's very, it's very real. And it, like, I think the mind is such a tricky thing. I think, you know, in addition to all the laws and restrictions, like you can really just tell yourself that like what you did was wrong and just like perpetuate that kind of shame and stigma that exists outside of each individual experience.

Jennie: Well, thank you. I'm so excited that you've had this full circle moment though. Now, now working at Jane’s Due Process, like how cool is that?

Sarah: I know I it's obviously been like near and dear to my heart for like so many different reasons, but yeah, it's, it's been just amazing and the work of JDP is just like so critical to this moment right now. Like it's yeah. I, I feel very lucky to be able to be at JDP.

Jennie: Well, Sarah, thank you. And all my love to everybody at JDP right now, because y'all are in Texas and are having to deal with all of the wacky, terrible abortion stuff happening there right now, and are doing so much amazing work to make sure you are able to get as many people as possible access to abortion care. So sending love and thanks to all of you.

Jennie: Hi Nick, thank you so much for being here today.

Nick: Hi Jennie. Um, my name's Nick. I use they/them pronouns. I'm a non-binary transgender person and I got an abortion in Texas in 2017.

Jennie: Great. So do you maybe what wanna share a little bit of your story?

Nick: Sure. Um, so at the time I got my abortion, I was unemployed and I was living in a three bedroom apartment with three other people. So there were four of us in a three bedroom. And at the time that I got pregnant, uh, being a parent was the furthest thing from my mind. Um, I didn't have room either physically or emotionally to parent at that time in my life, even though I know it's illegal to discriminate against pregnant people, when you, uh, when you're hiring, I know that that happens all the time and it's just a matter of someone taking one look at me seeing that I'm pregnant and deciding, oh, they're just not a good fit for our environment. You know, there's a lot of stigma because people don't wanna hire someone who's gonna immediately go out on maternity leave. And so, you know, I, I knew all of this, you know, I was looking for a job. I was looking for the next step in my career and I also just didn't have any money. I didn't have any money to find a bigger place to be able to live with as a kid or find a place on my own. And it, the whole thing was just, I was terrified. I absolutely didn't wanna take that path in my life at that moment. So I pretty quickly decided on having an abortion and I'm lucky that I live a large city in Texas and I lived within driving distance, within easy driving distance of a clinic in Texas. You do have to have two separate appointments. You have to have the first appointment to do an ultrasound and they have to describe the ultrasound to you. And then 24 hours later, uh, you get your actual procedure and this is the same for whether you do pills or surgical. You have to have 24 hours between your two appointments. You can have more than that, but you can't get an abortion the same day. And frankly, it's, it's a ridiculous law that isn't supported by medical science. It's not done for medical reasons. It's done to attempt to shame people into, uh, it's done to attempt to shame people into not having an abortion. And the whole thing is just really, it's just really hard to have someone stand in your way of getting a medical procedure. Um, I went to get my procedure on a Saturday and the protestors were there. Uh, they yelled and screamed at me and, uh, as I was heading in, they screamed “don't kill your baby.” And you know, it was really hard. I would've liked to think that I would've just flipped them off and yelled something back at them, but I didn't, you know, it made me feel really ashamed and it made me feel like I was doing something wrong. And I logically knew that I wasn't doing anything wrong. This was the right choice for me. They didn't know my life. They didn't know anything about me, but it is still awful and humiliating to have people scream at you while you go get a medical procedure. So I ended up getting my abortion. I got a surgical abortion and it was the best choice I could have made. You know, it was, I got finished with it and I was high on pain medication. And I was so relieved. I was like, it's over.

Nick: And I'm so grateful that I was able to get an abortion. It come completely changed my life for the better I was able to get a better job. Um, and that job actually, after a few years, um, led me to the current job I have now, which I love. I currently have the job as a Salesforce administrator. And, um, this job that I got after my abortion was the job that gave me Salesforce experience. And it was just, it was honestly such a blessing that I was able to get my abortion. And I was a, also really scared to get an abortion as a transgender person. When we talk about giving birth and pregnancy and abortion, it's centered in such binary terms, you know, it's like people talk about “pregnant women, women's right to choose, women's right to an abortion.” You know, I mean, even the term, even the term like “maternity care” or “maternity leave”, like I used earlier, like assumes that the person is a mother. And yet it's hard to talk about because I feel like if I would've used “parental leave” in that same sentence, like, let's be real, you know, cisgender men who are fathers are not viewed in the same way for taking parental leave as the pregnant person is. And not to mention if a cisgender man goes into an interview and his partner is pregnant, you know, they don't know that. So they're not gonna face the same kind of discrimination that I would've faced as a pregnant person who would've needed to take leave after actually giving birth. So this stuff is hard to talk about in gender neutral terms. And so I knew that go going into this experience and going into getting an abortion as a trans person, uh, not to mention trans people experience a lot of medical discrimination. I personally have experienced a lot of medical discrimination and going to the doctor is scary to me. And so I was, I was really scared when I was making my appointment. I cried on the phone because I didn't wanna be misgendered. And, um, you know, I have to say they were great. They were absolutely great. I had a very positive experience with the doctor and the nurses and, you know, the, the person I spoke to who was, oh…another thing in Texas, you have to get mandated counseling. And it's basically, they give you a packet full of lies, saying abortion can lead to breast cancer and all of that. And so you do have to speak to a counselor. And, um, honestly she was great. She's actually a friend of mine now. Um, and she was great and she honestly did really help me, uh, kind of talk about some of my feeling around this and kind of reassuring me that it was okay and it was gonna be okay. Um, and she was great. And she, she herself is, um, you know, part of the LGBTQ community and was familiar with trans issues. So it was great to speak to someone who is knowledgeable. There were a few hiccups where like, they noted my, you know, my, my chosen name on the forms, but not everybody saw that when they were like going to call my name. So I did get deadnamed a few times, but it wasn't out of malice. It was like a paperwork error. So I have to say that, like, there were some hiccups like that, but overall they were very trans-affirming to me. And so I personally had a good experience, but I also talk about my experience a lot, because I think a lot of abortion providers and people in the abortion access movement don't think about the fact that trans people are gonna get abortions, or they think about the fact, but they decide, oh, well, they're a minority of people, so it doesn't matter. Anyway. And so I tell my story to kind of push back on that because it's not just theoretical that trans people get abortions. So that's why I talk about my story so much, because I want people to know that trans people are part of this movement are part of this community and we deserve respect and we deserve competent care.

Jennie: There are so many parts that I'm like, so grateful you touched on, but first and foremost, I'm really so happy to have you on the podcast to talk about your experience as a trans person telling your story, because that is something we do try to make sure to be very clear about when we talk about this stuff is talking about why language is so important, but I think it's extra important that listeners or our audience is hearing a story from a non-binary trans person who is able to share their experience. I think that's so important. And then I just really loved you're hitting on I think a theme we're hearing from some of the stories is the role that shame plays in, in all of us, through the abortion laws, through the protestors, and then touching on having to navigate that web of like abortion laws in Texas, right? Like that's a lot for a person to have to deal with and all of the resulting feelings and, and all of it.

Nick: But you know, what kills me is that I had the best possible abortion experience. I had a supportive community around me. I had a supportive partner. I had a ride to the clinic, you know, like the clinic is a half an hour from me. So it was reasonable and okay. I, I live in Houston a half an hour is nothing, a half an hour is absolutely nothing! We like to joke in Houston that you can be in a long-distance relationship with someone else who lives in Houston. Like Houston is enormous. And so I live half an hour from the clinic. I had a ride, I had a super supportive community. I found out I was pregnant on Sunday. And then my appointment was on, my first appointment, my ultrasound was on Tuesday and I got my abortion on Saturday.

Jennie: Okay. It's a whole week.

Nick: Yeah, but I, I had supportive community members. I mean, my, my own roommates were wonderful. They were, they were wonderful people and they really, really helped me through the whole thing. And I have to say, like, I had a lot of support from other trans people. I had a lot of support from the trans women in my life, and it was a beautiful act of, you know, trans solidarity. And I think when I talk about abortion and when I talk about privilege, when we talk about, about abortion access, I am always careful to, you know, I talk about pregnant people and people with uteruses. But when I talk about the flip side of that, I always say cisgender men, because trans women and non-binary transgender people who are assigned male at birth are not the people who have privilege in this equation. Like they're not the people who are oppressing us. You know, they're not the people who are driving these awful draconian laws. They're not the ones doing that. That's all cis men. And honestly, there are a lot of cisgender women who do this too. And so like, I really think that's important to talk about when we talk about gender and abortion. And we talk about privilege and oppression on that axis, because I have to say like, like the trans women in my life were very, very supportive and it was just, you know, I had a wonderful, beautiful, supportive community around me. I had a ride to the clinic, I had emotional support. I was unemployed, so I was broke, but you know what? I had a credit card. I had a credit card that I could put this abortion on. And at the time that I got my abortion, it was $550, just, you know, just, and, and the pill and the surgical option were the same price. And, and so I did have the class privilege that I had a credit card I could put this on, you know, I had a safe place to recover. You know, I didn't have to hide this from the people I lived with. And I, you know, so I had as good of an experience as you could possibly have in Texas. And it still sucked. And it didn't suck because I got an abortion. Although, I mean, let's, let's be real. Like, you'd rather do something else on your Saturday. Like you'd probably rather clean your house than get a medical procedure. So like, yeah, I would've liked to have done something else on my weekend, but like, it wasn't the medical procedure itself that was off. It was the protestor screaming at me. It was the medically unnecessary rigmarole I had to go through. It was the way that these people had to lie to my face and they knew they were lying and I knew they were lying, but they had to say these things because the state of Texas demanded it. And, and so like I had as good of an experience as you could possibly have in Texas. And I knew, like I already knew about the laws because I was, you know, kind of, I wasn't super active in the pro-choice movement, but I, I knew the, some stuff about it. And, you know, had talked a little bit and been part of some conversations with the a C L U around gender neutral language in the abortion world. So I knew some stuff about it, but going through it firsthand really opened my eyes. And I was like, I had all of this support and it was still so hard. I can't imagine the people who don't have that support. And that's when I started volunteering with an abortion fund; in the abortion fund, we provided practical support. So we would drive people to their abortions. And I, I realized like just how much work needs to be done to make abortion accessible, um, everywhere, but just in my little corner of the universe in, in Texas. And so I started, uh, volunteering with them and I've been volunteering with them for several years now. And that was, that was something really meaningful to me that, you know, I could provide the support I received to other people, and that was something very meaningful to me. And it's something that I, I still absolutely love doing. I love, I love volunteering with them.

Jennie: That is…so I thank you for sharing all of this. I really appreciate you taking time to share your story.

Nick: I will say this like, so I've been telling, I've been telling my story since 2019, and I have to say that I was never ashamed of my abortion, but I did feel like I had to keep it secret because there were people in my life who weren't not pro-abortion and the act of keeping it secret made me feel ashamed. So it was like I was performing ashamed, you know, I was performing shame and that fed into creating a feeling of shame. And I have to say that telling my abortion story has been so liberating because I am no longer acting ashamed. And so I'm truely able to live in my truth and not be ashamed and talk about something that is important to me. And that greatly impacted me, but not in a bad way. And I, so I've been telling my story since 2019. And I have to say, like, I do feel like our discourse on abortion and talking specifically about trans people getting abortions. I do feel like that has come a long way.

Jennie: For sure.

Nick: More and more organizations are switching to gender neutral language. And you know, this because the trans exclusionary radical feminists and other assorted trans folks are mad about it. They’re so mad that we're saying that pregnant people are pregnant people. Um, they're so angry and I'm like, okay then, but I have to say, like, I feel like we've come a long way in the language we use. And even before I came on the scene, like a lot of major organizations we're already using and gender neutral language, but I feel like the conversation is expanding more and more, and we're getting more and more people thinking about this. Like I've had people approach me, you know, when after I've done, you know, some of these media things and, and said to me, oh, I never thought of it that way. Like I hadn't thought about them. And so I think that this conversation is expanding and the environment is becoming more and more welcoming to trans people. And I think that is so important because ultimately the fight it's all the fight for bodily autonomy fighting for abortion is fighting for bodily autonomy and fighting for medical interventions for trans people is bodily autonomy.

[Cat meows]

Jennie: Sorry.

Nick: No, I love that. I love that the cat chimed in like, yes, I agree with your abortion!

Jennie: She does.

Nick: I love it. Yeah. But abortion and transgender healthcare are, number one: abortion is a type of transgender healthcare. Transgender people need all the kinds of healthcare that cis people need, but transgender, specific medical interventions, like hormone replacement therapy and surgery, fighting for those things is also fighting for bodily autonomy. We are fighting together. We are fighting for the same thing. We are all fighting to be liberated from people who will want to control what we can do with our bodies. And so I think, I think making people think about those things is so important. And, you know, I just want cisgender people in this movement to include transgender people. We know a lot about bodily autonomy and how people try to take it away from us. And we're all fighting for the same thing. We're all fighting for gender justice and bodily autonomy and gender self-determination, it is such a powerful thing. And I think that cisgender people don't think about how they too would benefit from gender self-determination because gender self-determination doesn't just mean that I can choose my name and tell you what pronouns to use. It also means that a cisgender man can wear a dress. It means that a cisgender woman can she shave her head. You know, it means that people aren't judged and pigeonholed by their gender. You know, it's encouraging women in STEM. It's encouraging men who are elementary school teachers, you know, gender self-determination helps all of us. It is for all of us. And you know, abortion is one small piece of the puzzle and I want to help people put that in context and zoom out and see it as part of our larger movement.

Jennie: Oh my God. I couldn't think of a more perfect ending than this.

Nick: Thank you so much, Jennie.

Jennie: Hi, Stephanie. Thank you so much for being here.

Stephanie: Thanks so much for having me.

Jennie: So I'm so excited to have you here today to share your abortion story.

Stephanie: Yeah. I mean, I love talking about my abortion, so I'm very excited to be here with you.

Stephanie: Okay. So do you wanna get started and introduce yourself and share your story?

Stephanie: Yeah. So my name is Stephanie. My pronouns are she/her and I had an abortion when I was a high school student in Texas. So that was, um, already kind of a very stressful event, a little bit about me and kind of like who I was when I found out that I was pregnant. I was, I was just like this shy, awkward kid. And I think I'm just now a shy, awkward adult, but I found out that I was pregnant in a very public way. Cause I always been kind of a little clown and my friend like dared me to take a pregnancy test at the school. And I was like, yeah, why not? And I, I don't know what the joke was or why it was funny at this point in my life. Good idea at the time. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I soon learned that it would not be because I went into the bathroom that was in our classroom, a weird school in Texas. Oh God. And I took the pregnancy test and it came out positive. And up until that point, I had been like this, like, you know, I was a product of my environment. Like this was a suburb of Houston that leans, continues to lean heavily conservative. You know, my parents are from El Salvador, which is a country where abortion and miscarriage is highly criminalized. And so I grew up with just a bunch of messaging about how, you know, it just a lot of misinformation around like what abortion was that this is something that bad people did. And this is something that should have never happened. And it's so selfish and it's, it's so violent and it's so hurtful to the person that, you know, by deciding to have an abortion that I was gonna somehow be causing like harm to myself and others, but what's interesting is that like all of that, the Catholic upbringing, all of that, none of it mattered, cuz I saw that positive pregnancy test and I was like, “I'm gonna have an abortion.” Like it was just the first thought I never once was like, “I'm I'm not gonna do this. Like maybe I could…” it was just immediate. And it's like the most sure I had definitely ever felt about anything up until that point, but probably like my entire life. And so like I walk outside this classroom and I'm visibly shaken and I just like, I'm telling you, like I had never broken the rules. I had never skipped school. Like I just straight out of the classroom, I walked straight out of the building, this like patrol coach was like, “where are you going? You can't leave school.” And I just like turned around and screamed at him and I was like, “I'm pregnant!” And he left me alone and I got in my car and I drove to the closest Walmart, which is like five minutes away. And I just did like that, that very stereotypical Juno scene where I was just like drinking Capri Suns in my, in the, in the bathroom and taking these pregnancy tests and they were all positive. So yeah, that was not, that was not in that moment, but it wasn't, no, it was, it was like, I liked to stress that what was, I just knew that it was gonna be difficult because I thought that getting an abortion was illegal and I did not know like what the procedure was going to be like, what I had to do, what I knew is that I should probably Google Planned Parenthood, which is what I ended up doing. You know, I knew enough to get on the phone. I found that not every Planned Parenthood does the procedure. I like I, I found out a lot.

Stephanie: And so what I knew I needed to do was get to the clinic, which was going to be downtown Houston. It's about an hour and a half away from where I live. Cause Houston is giant. I knew that I was gonna have to find someone to drive me and I was gonna have to skip school. On the phone they told me the longer that I wait, the more expensive the procedure will be. And at that point I worked at a McDonald's like every two weeks I got cut a paycheck of like 150. And you know, even after getting help, when I called the Planned Parenthood, I was still going to be responsible for like $350. So that is like a month of, you know, if I had no other expenses, like more than a month of what I would earn. So this is like the most stressful like situation. And you know, I had to like figure it out. Like thankfully I had some people that I could lean on. Like my sister who was a waitress. So she was able to just get a hold of cash a lot quicker. She's one of the people that I told that I was pregnant, she worked a double shift at Denny's and made enough money to, to like have me be able to pay for the procedure. I unfortunately could, did not have a lot of people who I could tell that I needed help getting a ride. So who had ended up being was my abusive ex, he was the only person who was available at the time. Cause all my friends were in high school. I couldn't tell my parents, I didn't really have a safe adult. So I had to just kind of go to this person and say like, this is your problem too. And you know, I had to really fight him about it, but I needed to do that. I had to, I faked a letter from my mom, which I have since apologized for. And I said to the school and it was like, “Stephanie will be out today. She has, she's not feeling very great.” And then at 7:00 AM, like the next day we had driven down to the Planned Parenthood. And then I found out that I was like only having the ultrasound at that point and it wasn't actually gonna get the procedure. So it's like so much buildup for something that is causing me a lot of stress, because I just want the procedure. I just, I wanna move on with my life. I wanna get back to like my schoolwork and you know, the entire time I'm scared that someone's gonna do something like someone's gonna tell my mom, someone's gonna tell my teacher. And you know, the, the opportunity to get this procedure is gonna get taken away from me. And like on top of that, like already the really difficult dynamic of having to spend time with someone who at that point I already knew was not healthy and good, but you know, I, it, it really was a situation where I, I, I just had very limited options. And so, you know, I think a couple of days later, I, I had to do the entire thing again, beg him for a ride, fake a letter to my school and go get the procedure because I couldn't get the pill, which I think would've been a little bit more comfortable cause I could have done it at home and I would've missed less school theoretically. And it was like an extra $50. That was such a, like, you know, now, like I could now throw down an extra $50, but when I was 18, that was, that was a very significant amount of money for me. So I had to get the procedure and I was just, I just remember being in like hours of like waiting and like speaking with staff and like being so scared that the staff were gonna find out that I was an abusive relationship. Like tell me that I couldn't get the abortion because of that reason. It was like, it's just because I was working through this idea that those people were not there for my wellbeing. Right? That I kind of had to like figure my way out into an abortion.

Stephanie: And that was just that added so much to the stress. And now when I do my abortion storytelling or I'm helping someone through an abortion, I tell them like, “those people are there to help you. Like they are not trying to stop you. Like, you know, they're, they're just making sure that you're good with, with, you know, with what you need.” And it, it was always just like when I finally like, was about to get the abortion and by the way, I'm anemic. So the morning of my abortion, I had to like, just eat a bunch of cups of beans for no reason. It was, it was so bad. I needed to make sure my iron levels are right. Cause I could not delay this another day and risk it going up in cost having to figure out the, the drive and all that again. And I just remember the actual procedure taking like 10 minutes tops. And that's from like, you know, from like numbing me up from like explaining it, everything to me. And it was like this, you know, four-day buildup to something that was, you know, it, it was, it was a very, like, it was a significant moment of my life. And one that I just like refer back to and like, oh, this is like, Steph’s first moment of empowerment. This is Steph’s first moment of like pushing back against like people telling me what is best for me, what I need to be doing. And like taking like control of my life. But it was, it was like, really, so kind of like, that entire experience was underwhelming. It's like, I kind of cramped for a little bit. And then they were like, OK, you can go. And I was like, oh, that's it. And just like the feeling of relief, like, oh my God. It's like, and I just like telling them, like, it's like, we're done. Like, it's like, I'm not pregnant. And they're like, you're not pregnant. Go sit in this big chair and have some crackers and we'll just watch you for a couple of hours. And that was it. It was so stressful up until the point. But, you know, afterwards, I just, I just remember feeling so good.

Jennie: Yeah. It just like all of this unnecessary stress where like you could have had like some, some stress because you know, it was a big decision, even though you immediately knew what you wanted, but like there's still like emotions that I'm sure you, you have to walk through, but like all this extra of like having, being in a Catholic community and like more conservative household and like all this other stress and obstacles that the state was putting up in front of you, whether that was the waiting period, or you had travel for an hour and a half, like all this added stress that didn't need to be there.

Stephanie: Yeah. It was. And that's like, I, I mean, it was just like such a moment for me where I was like, who are these people in Austin deciding what my life should look like? Like what do you know about being 18 years old and you know, in a different relationship and, you know, being like Latinx like, you don't know anything about that. Like, let me live my life in the way that I need to. But yeah. I mean the negative, like I, the negative feelings that have ever come up around my abortion have been the, the barriers to getting the abortion. And then afterwards the stigma and the fear of like people finding out that I have an abortion. And like when I was getting the procedure, I, you know, really thought like this is something I'll never tell anyone else. Like, you know, this one person knows my sister knows, but I trust her, but I'll never, like, I was just thinking like, you know, like I'll have relationships, I'll get married. I'll never tell that person that I had an abortion. And like, you know, I, I don't want anyone at the school to find out and like, you know, it's, it's wild that like now it's like something that people know about me. Like my friends, like people from my high school have texted me and have been like, “Hey, I've, I've heard that you talk about your abortion. I need help getting an abortion. Like, what do I need to know? What is it like?” And like being that person in my community has been so healing because like, I just, I just, that was, that was something that I just really struggled with for a couple of years afterwards. Like what does this, you know, those 18 years of, of training and messaging about what a person who has an abortion is didn't go away overnight just because I wanted and the procedure that I wanted, you know, and like being in a community of abortion storytellers has also really helped. And like, knowing that like the majority of my friends now in my community are people who have had abortions and love their abortions has been also very helpful.

Jennie: Yeah. I mean, like working in repro, like hearing people's stories or hearing, you know, oh, I had an abortion, it seems so common. Cuz one, it is right? But I think once you like kinda step out of our community, there's still so many people who aren't hearing those stories and like what a difference that could make to people who think they're alone and are scared and working through all that to just hearing people talk about it loud and proud. And so I, I mean, it's just amazing that you're out there sharing your story to be that voice that people are hearing, that they need, need to know that they're not alone.

Stephanie: Yeah. I, I really like every time a person reaches out and is like, I heard your abortion story. Like, you know, you're the only person I've ever told. Like it just, it really is a healing situation. And you know, like your abortion story is your own. Like I've had friends, who've had abortions and they're like, I'm gonna tell my close friends and people who need to know and that's it. But like, I'm an Aries. Like I'm I tell everyone like, you know, like everyone gets that like question check in or interview questions where they're like, so what, why do you do this work? And I'm like, well, I had an abortion when I was 18! And that's the reason that I care about voting and you know, it's, it's for me, it's, it's a very central part of my life in my identity.

Jennie: Well, Stephanie, thank you so much for sharing your story. I really enjoyed talking to you.

Stephanie: Thank you for listening.

Jennie: Okay. Everybody. I hope you enjoyed this week's round of storytellers. Like I said, I am so excited and so grateful to all of them, for sharing their stories. We had so many wonderful people that we had to split this into two episodes because it would've been too long and I wanted to make sure every storyteller got their chance to shine. And I thought in one episode, it would've been too long and people might have missed out on some. So stay tuned for our next episode, but you'll hear round two abortion storytellers, again, just a huge, huge thank you to We Testify and Renee for making this happen. I really am grateful to them for connecting us with all of the wonderful storytellers. I'm super grateful to all of the storytellers for taking time to share their stories. So thank you all.

Jennie: Thanks for listening everyone. And we'll see you on our next episode of RePROS Fight Back. For more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit our website at reprosfightback.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at RePROS Fight Back, or on Instagram at reprosfb. If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and subscribing, rating and reviewing us on iTunes. Thanks for listening.

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