Ending Hyde is a Step Towards Abortion Justice

What does a world that has achieved abortion justice look like? It has access to a full spectrum of reproductive health care, where abortion is affordable, accessible, safe, de-stigmatized, without barriers, and never based on income or zip code. Daniela Ochoa Diaz, Federal Strategies Manager with All* Above All, sits down to talk with us about what we need to accomplish to reach abortion justice for all.

Abortion justice applies a justice lens to abortion care and access, applying how economic and systemic insecurity and immigration status multiply the barriers to care. All* Above All’s Abortion Justice Campaign features four pillars: 1) strategy accelerators; 2) narrative shapers; 3) policy movers; and 4) network builders. Strategy accelerators build momentum and power by sharing tools and resources with partners at all levels. Narrative shapers shift the cultural narrative and public perception on abortion. Policy movers push proactive abortion policy at all levels of government. Network builders bring partners together in a way that builds across movements.

Living in a world that has achieved abortion justice requires reaching out to and engaging with local, state, and federal elected officials, organization and activation, and having empowered conversations with friends and family. It also calls for removing abortion restrictions in individual states and repealing the Hyde amendment—a 1976 appropriations amendment that blocks federal funding for abortion care, meaning those who receive health insurance coverage via the Medicare program have to pay out-of-pocket for an abortion. The Hyde amendment expands to Indian Health Services, the District of Columbia, those who work in the federal government, and those serving in the U.S. military and the Peace Corps. 

The Equal Access To Abortion Coverage in Health Insurance (EACH) Act would repeal the Hyde amendment. The re-introduction of the EACH Act this Congressional session showed a record number of original co-sponsors. A clean Presidential budget would provide a blueprint for appropriations committees in the House and Senate to construct bills without the Hyde amendment. Passing the EACH Act and having a clean presidential budget would push the U.S. towards achieving abortion justice once and for all.

Links from this episode

All* Above All on Twitter
All* Above All on Facebook
Past podcast episode on the Hyde Amdement.
EACH Act Fact Sheet

Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast where we explore all things reproductive health, rights and justice. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and I'll be helping you stay informed around issues like birth control, abortion, sex education and LGBTQ issues and much, much more-- giving you the tools you need to take action and fight back. Okay, let's dive in.

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Jennie: Welcome to this week's episode of rePROs Fight Back. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. Just a real quick note. We get to this week's episode, we recorded this before the President released his budget. And in the episode, we talk about how important it is that the President released a budget that doesn't include the Hyde amendment. So, we just wanted to make a note before we listened to the episode that in the President's budget, he does not include the Hyde amendment. Y'all. This is a huge win! It is so exciting to see it is the first Presidential budget in decades that doesn't have the Hyde amendment in it. This is a historic moment. We are so excited, and it is so amazing to see so many have worked for so long to make this happen, but I just, it would be wrong to not give special shout outs to the people of color, to the reproductive justice organizations and to All* Above All who have been working and really leading this fight without their work, this would have never happened. It is so important that we take this momentum and make sure that Congress does their part and doesn't include Hyde in any of their appropriations bills. We can finally repeal Hyde. It would be, uh, amazing. And you'll hear more about it in this episode, but I really, it was important too, that we take a second to celebrate this huge win. Before you hear about more about Hyde and why it needs to go, I would also be a really terrible global advocate if I didn't talk about Helms. So, all the excitement to Hyde, it is so amazing that it is not there. And I don't want to take anything away from the amazingness and just how great this victory is, but it would be a real dereliction of duty on my part, if I did not mention that the President's budget does include the Helms amendment, which prohibits funding for abortion as a method of family planning in our global assistance. So it is a real bummer to see that the Helms amendment is still there. It just, again, shows how important it is that we fight in Congress to make sure that both of these bans are not in the final appropriations bills. It is way past time that we get rid of the Hyde amendment and we get rid of Helms. These are, you know, racist policies that need to go. So, with that, let's turn to this week's episode where we can learn more about the Hyde amendment, but celebrate the victory for now. It is so great that the President's budget did not include Hyde.

Jennie: Hi, repros, how's everybody doing? I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So last week, we did an emergency bonus episode with Dr. Daniel Grossman talking about the medical issues around the Supreme Court case Dobbs v Jackson Women's Health Organization, which the Supreme Court just said that they were going to hear next term. So, I thought I would talk a little bit about kind of some of the legal stuff with all the caveats that, I'm not a lawyer, but I just wanted to talk a little bit about what the case is and what it would mean. So, the Mississippi law would ban most abortions after 15 weeks. That is a real strike at the heart of Roe, which says that abortion is allowed up until viability, which is 24 weeks. So, 15 weeks is considerably before that. So, this is going to be the first big case that this new 6-3 conservative super majority at the court is going to hear surrounding abortion. And it really it's going to strike right at the heart of Roe. And you know, the worry is that, you know, it's not just this Mississippi case, they're going to be deciding if pre-viability bans are constitutional. So, you know, you can slowly see, right, what could happen? Well, 15 weeks are okay then why not 13, then why not 10? Of these six-week abortion bans are legal and you'll really see an eroding of access to abortion. And if Roe completely were to go down, you would see 24 states would likely ban abortion outright. And that would mean that 41% of women of reproductive age would see their nearest abortion clinic close. So they would have to travel greater distances to access abortion care. Right now, that means that a patient would have to travel about 35 miles to access an abortion. You know, there, it really varies where you're at and some places it is further, but the average is 35 miles. If Roe were to be overturned, you would see all those clinics close. It would mean that a person would need to travel 279 miles on average to access an abortion…that is a huge barrier to accessing care. And I think, you know, you really need to think about who will be the most impacted, you know, it's going to be a real problem. You see that those who are already marginalized are going to have real issues accessing care, but we really need to be clear, right? That is already the case in so many places, access to abortion is already inadequate. If we've talked about anything on the podcast, it's that it's… that it's so hard for so many people to access the care they need and want that this would just make it so much harder. And it's just something we need to remember that if this case, if this law, were to be upheld, it's not going to be a burden that's going to be equally shared, right?

Jennie: Rich people are always going to be able to travel, to access the abortion care they want. And those who are already marginalized, Black people, brown people, low-income individuals, people with disabilities, young people, the LGBTQ community, are the ones who are going to be left to bear this weight on their infringement of reproductive freedom. So that is why this case is so important and why we need to really be keeping an eye on it. So, you know, I'm sure we're going to do a lot more episodes dealing with this case, you know, right before it's argued. And we'll talk about it after the decision, but that is just something to be keeping an eye on. So it was great to have Dr. Grossman come on and talk about the medical side, but we need to also keep in mind the bigger picture and what this is going to mean for people's reproductive freedom. And with that, we're going to turn and talk to some of the barriers that are already in place, right? One of the things that keeps people from being able to access abortion, and that's the Hyde amendment. So we're going to talk about abortion justice in this episode, but also the Hyde amendment. And I am super excited to have with me Daniela Ochoa Diaz with All* Above All to talk about Hyde and abortion justice. And with that, you will turn to my interview with Daniella.

Jennie: Hi, Daniela. Thank you so much for being here today.

Daniela: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Jennie: So, before we get started, do you want to take a quick second and introduce yourself and include your pronouns?

Daniela: Absolutely. So my name is Daniela Ochoa Diaz. You can address me by she, her hers, and I'm the Federal Strategies Manager with All* Above All.

Jennie: Okay, great. So I'm excited to have you on today. We have talked about, you know, reproductive justice a number of times on the podcast, but All* Above All has been really talking about abortion justice. And that's something we've not talked about on the podcast yet. So, I'm excited to have this deeper conversation.

Daniela: As am I, as am I.

Jennie: So let's start at the beginning. What is abortion justice?

Daniela: So as you can tell by the name in and of itself, abortion justice is very abortion specific. You know, it takes a blend of the focus that it takes to do the work around abortion while also incorporating a justice lens and understanding how systemic and economic insecurity and immigration status kind of multiply the barriers to care. So it really takes into perspective all of those lenses. And so as folks are very familiar with reproductive justice, you know, with abortion justice, we are focusing on abortion specifically, as reproductive justice is beyond and much more than abortion care specifically.

Jennie: So I know that you have all outlined a couple of pillars that underline your abortion justice campaign. Do you want to talk about that?

Daniela: Sure. So some of what we have included in our pillars includes strategy accelerators, which is a way in which we build momentum and power by sharing the tools, resources, and expertise with national state and local partners. We also have the pillar of narrative shapers…is a pillar. That's all about shifting culture, shifting narrative and public perception, type of issues of abortion. Then we have a pillar that's centered around policy movers, where we move proactive abortion policy at the local state and federal levels. And an example of that at the federal level is the EACH Act, which I think we'll get to talk a little bit about later. And then we also, you know, have network builders as one of the pillars where we hope to and aspire to bring partners together, to build across movements, which we recognize is incredibly important. Not only is aspects of the work intersectional, but also like the relationship building that you do across movements to advocate for each other is incredibly important. So that's, that's a little bit of background on the pillars tied to the campaign.

Jennie: That's great. So, you know, when I think of a world that is like achieved abortion justice, what, what does this look like in people's lives?

Daniela: Oh my goodness. You know, it's a place where a full spectrum reproductive healthcare includes abortion, where abortion is affordable, available, supported without barriers tied to, you know, who you are, where you're from, how much you earn, where you're living, knowing that, where you're from and where you're living differ oftentimes.

Jennie: Right.

Daniela: So, you know, I think that's something that we are striving towards-- envisioning and working towards making a reality. And that does take the voices of many. And it does take a lot of education and a lot of deepening of connection. Jennie: I have to say, that sounds wonderful and so different from where we are right now. Um, just to be able to think of people, being able to easily access the care they need in a way that's supported and not stigmatized and affordable, like that would change so many people's lives.

Daniela: Uh, yeah, not only do I think it would change people's lives, but it would change the conversation around how we have it with ourselves when we reach the point where we need to make that decision, you know, knowing that it is supported, you know, and not stigmatized, it would be a game changer in how individuals feel in approaching making that decision.

Jennie: So, yeah, as somebody who grew up and went to Catholic school and had sex ed from a nun, like shame was very inherent in any sort of conversation that got anywhere near abortion. And I mean, everything to deal with sex, but so seeing it in a totally different light would I think really be huge.

Daniela: Yeah. I mean, I grew up in a similar setting, went to Catholic school, at least when I was living in my home country and uh, in the states, you know, definitely culturally we carried aspects of that stigma when we immigrated here and we'd enter a new country, new conversations around the issue and still like, you know, that persists. So it would be incredibly pivotal for individuals when they live in a world where that's true. Right?

Jennie: Yeah. So what needs to happen to get there, like this amazing world that we want to see happen? Like what do we need to do?

Daniela: My goodness. So, I mean, this work has been led by women of color for a really long time. So, you know, when thinking about what we need to do to get there, I also want to acknowledge what has been done to get us to this present moment, which is an immense amount of work and organizing to get, to have this conversation and to get, to have that vision.

Jennie: Right.

Daniela: You know, I think all forms of elected officials are incredibly important, reaching out to them, reaching out to state legislators, working, you know, reaching out to folks in the administration, as well as like the President's office, every branch that gets to have a decision, that gets to have an opinion on this, needs to hear from people. You know, ultimately, we're still in a pandemic and the nation is still undergoing a reckoning for racial justice. And, you know, people of color have been severely affected by this past year and a half. And we don't know what that will look like in the long term. Right? And so, you know, ultimately to get there, we need organizing, we need all folks to be activated, but also for people to feel empowered, to have these conversations at all levels with friends and family, but also to not be afraid to reach out to, you know, political leaders and council members and understand what's happening locally for them at the state level, but also at the federal level. And that's, that's a big narrative to hold, right? That's a lot of research. That's a lot of content to take in. And, you know, part of our job is to make that more accessible to make that an easier next step, you know, inevitably, part of what needs to happen to get there is, you know, we need to not have Hyde be included in appropriations, which is ultimately, you know, the way that the government sets the budget. We need states to remove restrictions on abortion coverage in, you know, from private insurers and also from their state programs. So, you know, there's a lot of work to be done and I'm still excited to be in a position where imagining that and envisioning, achieving those things is something that makes me incredibly excited. And, you know, it makes me think about the value of collaboration and working across movement and making these things accessible so that folks and elected officials are hearing from a wide scope of people from all different backgrounds and all different experiences.

Jennie: So, you know, you brought up Hyde and I think that's a really great place to dig in because it is so integral to achieving a vision of abortion justice, because if you can't afford it, like it doesn't matter if it's legal, right? So let's start, what does Hyde do?

Daniela: So Hyde is a ban on abortion coverage that was put in place in 1976 by Henry Hyde… And its goal is to block federal funds to cover abortion in. And it lives in, in the greatest scope, it lives in the Labor, Health, and Human Services appropriations bill that decides coverage for Medicaid and Medicare. And so living in that bill that same block of federal funds over time has expanded to live in other bills that expand the reach of who doesn't have coverage of abortion. And now it lives in quite a bit of other appropriations bills as well. So, it expands to Indian Health services, the Washington DC…the District has a ban people who work for the federal government, people who are in the armed services and or family members of those who serve. So, you know, it went from living in one place and gradually growing over time, expanding the amount of people whose care isn't covered. And in the times of the pandemic, you know, we've seen, I believe Kaiser Foundation has been really incredible at publishing pieces and research on this, about how people who are needing to rely on Medicaid and Medicare are growing. So the reach of this ban, this ban on abortion coverage is expanding during the pandemic, in the sense of the folks who are now, you know, entering Medicaid and Medicare. So that's a little bit of, of Hyde and how it's grown over time.

Jennie: Yeah. And what to, I mean, it's, egregious in general, but like having it applying to Medicaid and Medicare, it's like the people who are the least able to afford an abortion out of pocket are being targeted and that's also tends to be people of color.

Daniela: Absolutely. And that was the direct intent from Henry Hyde. You know, there's a famous quote of his that, you know, I'm paraphrasing when I say this, but basically says that he can't, you know, reverse something like Roe vs Wade, or, but he will block abortion coverage from taking place at least in Medicare and Medicaid. And that's what he did. And it was very intentional, very clear with a very clear understanding of the demographic that it would be affecting, which are low-income folks and people working to make ends meet and a good portion of those folks end up being also people of color.

Jennie:Yeah. And this is, I think, again, a great place where you see the leadership of women of color, who really championed this movement to get rid of hide. You know, so many other groups were focused on keeping abortion legal, but so the people who couldn't afford it or access it, it didn't matter that it was legal.

Daniela: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think to this day, you know, I have formally worked in a clinic in the past. I think it's clear what absence of care within reach looks like. We know that there are abortion deserts in different parts of the United States where care and accessing care doesn't look the same… states that for example, have one clinic, you know, have people traveling either to that clinic or outside of their state to access the care that they need. And from that perspective, you know, it complicates what the care that you need looks like, which should be available to you where you are.

Jennie: Yeah. When I think of, you know, all the things that are happening, it, it always comes down to people with money, always going to be able to find an access to the care they need but the burden is always going to fall among those who are already disenfranchised.

Daniela: Truly. I mean, you know, and I'll share this from my experience working in clinic, but some of the harder pieces were tied to what does it look like to find childcare? What does it look like to have a job where you don't technically have time to take off or because you're a migrant worker making that request or not having to lift things that are heavy are just things that you can't really do. And so, yeah, people who are most directly affected are people who are working really hard and struggling.

Jennie: So now we can see that Hyde is obviously terrible and needs to go. So what, what we need to do to make this happen, what is going on to get rid of Hyde?

Daniela: A budget that doesn't have Hyde in it. And what that ultimately does is it provides the instructions for appropriations committees in the House and the Senate to build their bills without it, right? And passing those bills would become the way in which we would, you know, get rid of Hyde. And the more we talk about EACH, the more we talk about the harms of this, the more that that narrative is lively and present as we enter this cycle of appropriations.

Jennie: So what are you hoping to see during appropriations, since this is coming out just before congressional appropriations.

Daniela: Ooh, appropriations-- the cycle returns.

Jennie: It is, does it ever end? I don't actually think it ever ends. It's a semi-colon, comma, comma, and never a period.

Daniela: No, it never ends. Um, so some of the things that we can expect, I think on the House side, you know, both Pelosi and DeLauro have been incredibly vocal about Hyde. And I think some of what we're expecting is for the House to pass bills without Hyde, which is, I mean, that's amazing. It's incredible because it shows not only how far the needle is moving, but it shows the years of commitment and dedication to having this conversation with the House and I'm still taking it in. And so, yeah, I mean, you have leadership and it's amazing to see it all come together. It's incredible to see it all come together and to hear the strength behind it. I don't know if, if folks knew, what DeLauro did last year or hearing on the harms of Hyde. And it was incredibly powerful, not only the witnesses that we had in that hearing, but the narrative and the conversation that came from it to then see the level of support that is present today in this Congress is very exciting. And then we have really strong champions in the Senate, including Senator Murray, who I believe is in the subcommittee for Labor, Health, and Human Services and chairs the subcommittee. So, you know, the Senate is more complicated. There is, you know, truly it's split 50/50, and the filibuster is still very much so present. So we will see what develops there, but at least around the House, we are, you know, very excited to see what comes about. Again, this is a long-lasting cycle that never ends. So, you know, we will be seeing it play out live throughout the summer.

Jennie: Awesome. It's been so great to watch the momentum build for repealing Hyde. I remember when EACH was first getting going, and it was a slog to get everybody to understand the importance of it. And it's been so wonderful to see how far it is come and to see it get put into the presidential platform in 2016 and seeing it again now it's so great to see it building momentum and hopefully we will get it repealed.

Daniela: Absolutely. That is, that is the goal and the vision. One of my favorite things that I just thought about as you were talking about 2016 was the hashtag started by Renee Bracey Sherman called #AskAboutAbortion.

Jennie: That was great. I remember that.

Daniela: So, so deeply, um, you know, I'll share in 2015, I had an abortion here in DC and then to see that be a tool that we use to have these conversations at that level was definitely a memorable moment. I'm a big fan of ask about abortion. So yes, it has been so great.

Jennie: It was so great to see it come back. I mean, did it ever really go away? Uh, but it's so great to see that and to see all of the great work to try and take the stigma out of abortion since, I mean, abortion is just healthcare. So to see it being treated as such is such a great step.

Daniela: Yeah. And I think, you know, going back to the question of what the audience can do, our website has the opportunity for people to sign up and take action directly tied to EACH specifically. And we'll make asks at different points to have conversations that are tied to Hyde as well, and, you know, separate from the bill in and of itself, but more centered around the appropriation cycle or the return of, you know, September 30th, which is when, what folks would call the anniversary of Hyde. Right? And so those are great opportunities that are really easy and compact and concise around how to, you know, send an email to your member of Congress, how to send a thank you note to your member of Congress, because they might either be on the bill or already be having these conversations, or be a part of this squad of folks that are leading in Congress around this issue. And also those are really great notes to take for conversations around this at the state level and find out what's going on in your state, find out what's going on locally, get in touch with your local abortion funds and your clinics, and really get to know where you are and what's happening around you.

Jennie: And there are some states where the state at large has an idea of what's going on because it's in the news more frequently than not. And there are states where it's a little bit more quiet, but we still need to need to do work, you know?

Daniela: Yes, absolutely. It's so nice that there are easy concrete steps that can be taken. I think sometimes when we're talking, it seems so overwhelming that there's just like so much to take on, but absolutely with Hyde there's like an easy ask. And let's just remember these folks who work in Congress and elected officials, it's important for them to hear from their constituents. It's important for them to hear the stories of people who either voted them in or are wanting them to do better. You know? And so from that place for an election comes up, it's important for you to be informed about who is on the ballot that aligns with your values, that aligns with your vision. And don't be afraid to do outreach to those people when elections are happening and ask them questions about where they stand on issues that are important to you. We know that in conversations and meetings with the Hill, that, that those, that kind of outreach makes a big difference.

Jennie: Absolutely. Well, Daniela, thank you so much for being here. I had so much fun talking to you.

Daniela: Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you and to spread the word about abortion justice and the importance of, uh, getting rid of Hyde.

Jennie: Okay. I hope you all enjoyed my conversation with Daniela. I had a wonderful time talking to her. If you have any questions or want to learn more, always feel free to reach out.

Jennie: Thanks for listening everyone. And we'll see you on our next episode of RePROS Fight Back. For more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit our website at reprosfightback.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at RePROS Fight Back, or on Instagram at reprosfb. If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and subscribing, rating and reviewing us on iTunes. Thanks for listening.

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