A Personal Conversation About COVID

This week’s podcast episode is a different format. Preston Mitchum, Director of Policy with Unite for Reproductive and Gender Equity (URGE), sits down to share his experience of having recently been diagnosed with and recovering from COVID-19.

Links from this episode

Preston Mitchum on Twitter
Young People’s Reproductive Justice Policy Agenda
URGE on Twitter
URGE on Facebook

Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to RePROs Fight Back, a podcast where we explore all things reproductive health, rights and justice. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and I'll be helping you stay informed around issues like birth control, abortion, sex education and LGBTQ issues and much, much more-- giving you the tools you need to take action and fight back. Okay, let's dive in.

Read More

Jennie: Welcome to this week's episode of RePROs Fight Back. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my preferred pronouns are she/her

Jennie: Hi, repros and welcome to this week's episode. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter ,and my preferred pronouns are she/her. Y'all. I'm so excited for you to hear this week's episode. I talked to my friend Preston Mitcham with URGE and we have such an amazing conversation. I can't wait for y'all to hear it, but before that, just a really quick intro, because really, I just want to get to the interview. I wanted to talk about this amazing documentary I saw and I realized I hadn't talked about it on the podcast yet. I saw it a couple of weeks ago, and I apparently just dropped the ball. And haven't talked about it. Disclosure--, if you haven't seen Disclosure on Netflix yet, stop and go watch it. It is so well done. And so informative. It is about transgender representation in the media. So it looks at how trans people are portrayed in TV and movies. And it traces that history way back to the beginning. And it's not just like transgender storylines, but it's about using transgender actors as well, and talks about the importance of doing that and why representation for the transgender community is so important. And it is just such an amazing documentary. I'm going to watch it again because it is that good. So I really strongly recommend everyone takes some time to watch Disclosure, it's on Netflix. You will not regret it. We're just going to go straight to the interview because it is so good. I had such a great conversation with Preston, and if you aren't following him yet, please make sure to follow him on everything, his handle is @PrestonMitchum on Twitter and Instagram. I have learned so much from Preston. I cannot recommend following him enough. He's opened my eyes to so many things and I always listen to him. So I'm really excited for y'all to hear this conversation. So without further ado, here's my interview with Preston Mitchum at URGE.

Jennie: Hi Preston. Thank you so much for being here today.

Preston: Thank you so much. I am really excited to be joining you.

Jennie: It's just really exciting to see you again.

Preston: Yes. I'm so excited to have this conversation and to see you.

Jennie: Before we get started. Do you want to do a quick introduction of who you are and your pronouns?

Preston: Sure. Hey, repros, I am Preston Mitchum. My pronouns are he and him and I am the Director of Policy with URGE. For folks who may not know URGE, is a national, but multi-state driven organization doing work on behalf of young people in the South and the Midwest. And we are a reproductive justice organization. The five states that we directly work with, and it's often in the Midwest, is Ohio, Kansas, Alabama, Georgia, and Texas. And actually, we also have recently incorporated California because contrary to popular belief, not all blue states are progressive for young people.

Jennie: So I was thinking of you recently because I had an introduction that I did to the podcast talking about the importance of language and the language we use and using your pronouns and making sure when you're talking about pregnant people--you're talking about pregnant people-- not just talking about women, and not being ableist. And so much of my thinking has come from you. And I'm so grateful for like a lot of the things I've learned following you on social, which everybody should do, but it seems like this would be a missed opportunity if I didn't let you maybe say a little bit about that, because you're really great around these issues.

Preston: Thank you, so first, thank you for allowing me to even speak on this. One thing that I think it's always important to talk about is language access and which language is or is not accessible. And so, you know, we think about the use of pronouns. It's always around normalizing pronouns in a way that can avoid mis-gendering in a way that actually minimize the stress for trans and non-binary people. And so while it's included for everyone-- list your pronouns, lead with your pronouns, don’t assume pronouns. It's particularly important for cis gender people like myself to include their pronouns on their social media profiles, including Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and your email signatures, et cetera. The idea is really to avoid assumption. There's an idea that people look a particular way. And when people look a particular way, people oftentimes attach a particular pronoun to them and that pronoun could be incorrect, right? Because pronouns are personal. That's how we identify. So it doesn't matter what the world sees you and sees us as it matters how we identify. So the one may be uncomfortable for many people. You know, if I don't know people, I will likely ask them what their pronoun is. And some people have looked at me like I've had three eyes and multiple foreheads, and I'm okay with that because for me, like, I completely recognize that we should avoid mis-gendering. And the only way to do that is really by normalizing pronouns and normalizing us asking about pronouns. And that's also, you know, similar around language access, why we should avoid ableism, right? As an able-bodied…and I don't mean that it's just physical….I mean like people who maybe not even have like mental, emotional, or intellectual disabilities, many times we're inherently ableist because we're not forced to think about our privilege in that way, similar to white privilege, similar to cis privilege, to male privilege among other things. And so it's why people should avoid the use of the word…like ‘crazy.’ People often mean things like ridiculous or something that's more extravagant or something…but ‘crazy’ still has a negative connotation. People actually don't mean ‘crazy’. But what it does is that attaches a negative connotation to people experiencing mental health issues. I shouldn't even say issues there. So see? We're learning ourselves… like mental health episodes or mental health crises. When we talk about this, that's a reason why we should avoid even the use of words, like ‘crazy.’ Long answers. So I apologize. But it's really important to really central conversations on avoiding mis-gendering and how we can be accessible to each other through our language.

Jennie: I think so much of it is it's so built into our language that you've just might not even realize you're doing it. And it's just really…

Preston: We don't realize we're doing it! And that's the thing. And so through the past several months, I really try to live a life full of grace and compassion. And we all fail at doing that, right? Because we're so worried about ourselves many times than not even like in a bad, selfish way, but it's like, how am I coming across to people in so many times we're so fearful of making mistakes because we know what that looks like. And we know what can happen when we make mistakes, but mistakes aren't really the issue. The issue is not being accountable for the mistakes we make. And so most of the time when people are, are mis-gendered, I have rarely experienced people be so frustrated that they can't understand why it may occur. What frustrates them more is that they'll mis-gender someone and they won't even make a minute, they won't hold themselves accountable for the harm they caused… they're not even really worried about transformation or restoration. And so I think all of this is inherent most of the time it's non-malicious, but it's not really about the intention. It's about the impact. So we have to honor how we make folks feel even when we're doing things with the best of our intentions.

Jennie: So I wanted to turn to the reason you're actually here today, and that is that you had COVID and you wanted to share your story. And first I'm just so grateful that you wanted to share it with me. So thank you.

Preston: You're welcome.

Jennie: Second, it's your story. So I'll let you tell it in the way you would like to tell it.

Preston: Yeah, I appreciate that. So first thing I'll say is wear your mask and wash your hands. And I know your listeners know that very well, but people are making COVID a political issue in a way that it should not be one, but unfortunately, we've always made prioritization of certain lives a political issue. And unfortunately truth is that most of that means that we deprioritized like folks at the marches more. So we deprioritize black indigenous and other people of color's lives. We deprioritize queer and trans and non-binary people's lives, we deprioritize people in the South and the mid-Western United States, deprioritize Eastern, Southern Africa and more. And so we know that anti-blackness and anti-brown is, is global. It doesn't just happen within the United States. It happens in multiple countries throughout the world and it's pervasive. And so I want to lead with that because there's certainly an intersection of racism, of criminalization, of public health disparities, and what that actually means for marginalized communities, especially marginalized communities who are at the intersection of multiple identities.

Preston: So I started experiencing symptoms on June 29th and everything was so rapid. I went to the protests, I wore my mask. I washed and sanitized my hands because I believe in data and science and, and cleanliness.

Jennie: Sure. Apparently things that need to be said.

Preston: Exactly, Exactly. So I did everything within my power, because I said this before, but can you imagine just how angry people had to be around anti-black police violence and brutality, and a global pandemic has happening just like… to march outside by the thousands, all over the country and all over the world. And I was one of those people who were like, you know what, I'm actually fearful. I'm having anxiety of acquiring COVID, but I deeply believe in the power of protest and I’m going outside. I went to the protest in DC, four to five times, didn't experience symptoms, was completely fine. It was when I went to a smaller house gathering of eight people and, out of eight people, three of us contracted COVID. And I want to first say part of why that's true, frankly, is because we were inside and the more data that's revealed, we're realizing that actually, when you're just inside, there's no open air, et cetera. It's contained. So you're like containing a virus. I wish I knew that then. So June 29th, I started experiencing symptoms, which was probably four days after the function. And a friend who was at the function that I went out to dinner with after asked me like, “Hey, do you feel sick from the food?” And I was like, no, I feel fine. He thought he had food poisoning. But what it really was the first developing symptoms of him experiencing COVID. And so he told me he tested positive, and on June 28th, I started experiencing symptoms the next day. First it started off with like an excruciating headache. I mean, I don't really get headaches. So the fact that I got one, honestly, I was like, okay, this is actually troubling me. And it was so bad, like if it was a regular headache, okay. But it was so bad that I was like, okay, let me just lay down. And then I started experiencing backaches and body chills, everything you read about. And so I gave myself a couple of days and then one morning it was July 2nd. So it was like three days later, I woke up with such a bad headaches. And I was like, I have to go to urgent care. It was impossible for me to get through the day. So I went to urgent care. I had a 102.5 fever. And I got a rapid test because my symptoms were developing so badly and my results came back positive. And so I received acetaminophen. Oh. And I should also say my blood pressure was like one 150 over 90. It was dangerously high. And so the provider came back and she was like, yes, you tested positive. Don't worry about your high blood pressure right now. Don't worry about your high oxygen level right now, because what's happening is your high fever is actually contributing to that. So she gave acetaminophen and I took that. My fever started to reduce and she prescribed me something. I went home and told my roommate because we live together, which obviously makes things a little bit more difficult. But thankfully things worked out. I was sick for about two weeks. The first week was absolutely the most painful. And I'm thankful to be recovered now, physically. I always want to just say like, physically, I feel great… mentally, psychologically not so much. And so I shared on social media the other day, I thought the worst thing that could have happened for me was to have a positive result for COVID until I recovered. And then stigma started to happen as a result of having COVID. So that's been the part that's actually been the most challenging

Jennie: First. I'm so happy you are doing better. I was really worried about you when you were talking about how sick you were and then not seeing you for so long, which if you follow Preston on social, you know is rare. So I was like, oh shit, he's really sick. So I'm just really happy that you are okay.

Preston: I appreciate that. And a lot of it is the fatigue. Your immune system is going haywire. And I think part of it going, it's trying to figure itself out. And there were moments where 2:00 PM would hit and I will be watching TV laying in the bed and I would just sleep until 9:00 PM. And the thing is, you know, sometimes you feel yourself getting sleepy, right? I would just be in the bed. And then the next thing I knew I would be asleep. And it was because my body was like, you need to sleep. This is what I'm telling you to do. For me, what really helped was not cooking, not cleaning, resting. And that's so nuanced, right? For people who have children and you know, partners are living with them…I am a single man with no children. I, that is a privileging statement for me to make while simultaneously recognizing that that is how people are getting better. So just be able to just sit and rest for their body to actually recover itself.

Jennie: One of the things that you really wanted to talk about was the stigma that you are dealing with and are seeing, how was that presenting? Like what are you seeing?

Preston: So I'm really, really glad that you asked the question around stigma because I probably don't need to tell this for your listeners. But stigma really spreads because of people having fear, even when that fear is valid for people's lived experience and individual lives, right? There are people with preexisting conditions. There are people who may just not know anything about the virus that's happening and we're learning new things about the virus every day. So multiple things can be truthful. A person can both have a valid fear and spread stigma against individual people. And frankly, that's true because again, fear contributes to stigma. So what I've directly mostly heard, and I think that's more hurtful because it has been from family and friends, not really family, but definitely friends and loved ones who have made it clear that they're not comfortable. Things like “I want to make sure that you're really okay before we hang out again.” And this is mostly in the context of me saying like, hey, it's been weeks. You have time to hang out. And again, it's one of those things where it's like, I, and some of it, let me just back up and say, some of it is judgment, right? Based on the decisions people made to even contract the virus because they don't recognize that the virus, it does not care where you are. Like you can be at a grocery store and you could be walking down the street and viruses are just looking for ways to get into people's bodies. They're not looking for it now, granted, they certainly spread faster when you're like at mass things. Right? But these were not people who were judging me for going to a protest because I could have easily been tactical by being at a protest. But it wasn't judgement on that. Right? Because they considered that good things I was doing, right? Air quotes. And so that's been really, the ways stigma has been spreading. It's really been in terms of comfort. And sometimes the comfort again is because people may have preexisting conditions, but I want to name that. So do I, right? But again, I have similar fears, but the truth is for anyone who's tested positive-- for many of us and let's not say anyone-- but for many of us who have tested positive for COVID, one of the things that we're worried about is spreading anything, which is why many of us keep ourselves in our homes longer than even the CDC requires, because we are worried. What we don't need is the additional burden from other people, even when they're doing it in love in many ways and trying to protect themselves. And so that's been a lot of the stigma that's been happening around judgements of decisions around the comfort or not of hanging around people. And frankly, all of it is really rooted in misinformation. And un-education around the virus. The information that we have about the virus is changing. There are definitely things that are consistently true, how people are being cleared is consistently true. The ways the virus is spreading is consistently true. I really want to encourage us to not allow our fears, just stifle, like actually building community and continuing community with our friends and loved ones. Because I really worry, like this post-viral world, I really worry that we're going to see the continuation of stigma for communities with disabilities, the continuation of stigma for people living with HIV and the stigma for people who tested positive for COVID.

Jennie: Yeah. And this may be a little bit different with COVID because you're so immediately sick, but stigma, it prohibits people from getting care because they're scared of the stigma that's attached to the thing with COVID.

Preston: But not really in some ways, right? I will say that I want to dispel something. COVID is not the same thing as HIV. And I've been seeing that a lot on media, but stigma is stigma, right? Of course, living with COVID is not like living with HIV. HIV is a lifelong chronic illness that's manageable. That has a 40 plus year history of stigmatization of criminalization across the country, across the world. Frankly, there are clear differences, but stigma does happen in what I'm reading and feeling is the way that like, when we first started learning around this virus, which was formerly known as the GRID, the “gay related immuno deficiency syndrome” or illness that was basically just tied to gay people. The stigma that presented itself then is this stigma that we're experiencing now, right? It's around like misinformation. It's around people not being educated around how viruses are spread and how things are transmitted. Right? People still believe that you can transmit HIV through saliva, which is biomedically impossible. And so though there are definitely clear differences and I want to be very mindful of what I'm saying. The stigma is still there in many ways and it feels reminiscent. It feels very reminiscent historically of the panic that people felt because that's what it is. People are panicking. There's massive hysteria, a lot of mass hysteria is because of our own government and our own fractured healthcare system. And so again, it goes back to that grace and compassion, right? Like trying to be compassionate for other people in their fillings. They're recognizing that a lot of that starts with affirming how you feel. And many of us feel stigmatized and it's because we are being stigmatized.

Jennie: This all makes me think back to how kind of, how we started this conversation, which was around communities of color and lack of access to healthcare and like how this is all coming together to exacerbate this crisis and making it, I hope clearer to people that inequities and access to our health care. It's just this horrible multiplying effect of how much more it is impacting particularly black communities and then digging down deeper. Right? So yes, black communities, but then you're talking about maybe black trans communities. I'm sure being much more impacted. So it's just all terrible.

Preston: It is. Yeah, no, exactly. And the truth is that's not only true, but we know it in data, even in a small data that we're now having. And that's now being discovered. There's been a lot of work that's been done by many great people like Derek Cornell, Andrea Richie, among others who really started this COVID-19 policing work. And they started to track even a couple of months ago, right? When there was so many stay at home orders that were coming down and enforcement orders, the people who were being impacted first or like violating curfew were black or queer folks or brown and trans folks, and again, multiple marginalized communities were being impacted and the South and the Midwest. But truly we noticed that all over the country. So it's hard to track a lot of that now because we don't really have those borders in the same way. What we do have are some jurisdictions actually proposing and enforcing mandatory mass orders. And so it's like if you see someone not wearing masks, we see all over the media, like many white people who are not wearing masks. And obviously that's a generalization, but that's just what we've seen on social media. And I haven't seen the police be used or enforceable orders to be used for any of them. Now I'm very anti police. Let’s be very clear. I am very proud of my want to defund the police. I'm very actually… I'll push even more to sound very pro abolishment of the police. But my point there is that we are not recognizing a similar enforcement of laws from nonwhite people in white people. And so that must be spelled out very clearly, frankly. So to your point, it is absolutely at the intersection of, we already know black communities experience preexisting conditions. And that is not in a vacuum that doesn't just happen by itself. It's because of food deserts. It's because of environmental racism, it’s because of an access to healthcare systems. It's because of everything, right? But we see that, we see criminalization and we see how those things really intersect. And so absolutely 100%, your point is well taken and it's absolutely accurate. And we have the data to back it up/

Jennie: Again, the like being taken in a silo, right. That you often hear about what we need to do to decrease the black maternal health death rate. But it's often treated as like this one thing you just need to fix this one little part. It's because of racism, not just at the point of the provider, but the impact is having on the women's bodies over their entire lives and sorry, on people's bodies over their entire lives.

Preston: For sure. Oh, 100%. Right. Because the thing is many, many times we treat these issues in silos. Right. And so it's like, and we don't say it like it's easy. I think there are some people who literally hear it say racism is the issue. And they're just like, yeah, but racism is everywhere. And it's like, yeah, there are actually solutions for how to dismantle it. So we're not saying that like it's going to happen tomorrow, right? Or in a week, we know its systems that need to be dismantled over time and figured out over time and reworked over time. But I promise you when we start to do that and have genuine conversations beyond like reading anti-racism books and actually acting in anti-racist ways that we can actually really contribute to a better world, a world that involves less criminalization that involves fewer and hopefully zero police. So a world that actually allows people to have healthcare access to a world that allows people to have abortion care. All of these things are interconnected and we'll treat them as silos. We're not really tackling the overarching issue. COVID is spreading in black communities faster because of racism. We have to name that COVID is spreading in black communities because black communities for centuries have not had proper access to healthcare and food options and economic justice. Generally, if there's a McDonald's up the street, that's $3. The reason I always talk about our day is people are like, I've heard people say it's, “just eat better”. Okay. Even if you believe that that is a valid point, if you have a Whole Foods that is like not in black communities and people have to travel to get it, which means they have to have transportation to get it and money to get it. And you have a McDonald's up the street, that's a combo for $4, you're going to choose the McDonald's because it is an easier and more accessible option for you. And so if you don't like that to be the case, and you're worried about preexisting conditions, then maybe we should provide more options for healthier food in black communities. And we don't do that because many of us don't live that life. That's like non blaming. That's like, if you just did better, we're finger pointing, right. If you just did better, not thinking about resources, not thinking about access. And so that is the world I really envisioned. And that is frankly, part of public safety. When people talk about envisioning public safety, it is that providing better options for people leads to safer, healthier, longer lives. And we need to make sure we're doing that for marginalized communities.

Jennie: So I would think probably not maybe my listeners, because they should be able to see a lot of these connections at this point. But some people may ask isn't this of reproductive health rights and justice podcast? Like, why are you talking about COVID? And I think it is apparent to you and me, but why are we talking about COVID on a reproductive health rights and justice podcast?

Preston: So, you know, I am always, I worked for reproductive justice organization. I deeply believe in reproductive justice. Of course we need reproductive health and rights, but I want to really start off by saying what reproductive justice is to maybe connect those pieces better. So, first of all, reproductive justice started in 1994 by 12 black women who quite frankly got together at the International Conference on Population Development in Cairo, because they were like, and I'll be very transparent. These white women are not talking about issues that impact black women. So they were like, of course we need abortion care, but we need to actually address abortion access. We need to address the reasons in particular why black and other women of color are actually not receiving abortion access and care and economic justice and environmental catastrophes. And so they got together to really point what they were experiencing and it was reproductive health and rights plus social justice. So we think about the concept of reproductive justice and really, you know, shout out to Sister Song based in Atlanta, Georgia, we're thinking around four things, oftentimes the right to have a child, the right to not have a child, the right to parent the child you have in a safe environment and the right to bodily autonomy. And so what that oftentimes mean is always talk about, especially the third one, the right to parent the child in a safe environment. Because when we think about COVID right, COVID for many of us is not safe, right? It is hard to actually parent children among others in a safe environment that right now in the United States, we've had 140,000 deaths. So not just contractions but deaths. And so it's like, how do you actually parent the child you have when people can be criminalized by COVID laws or by enforcement laws, how do you actually have bodily autonomy? When you can go out in the middle of the street and be killed by the police, how do you have bodily autonomy? And actually being raised in a safe environment when Flint, Michigan still doesn't have clean water. And so, you know, when we're talking about COVID, we're talking about actually exacerbation of health disparities and really being criminalized for having those health disparities. We're talking about living a life of preexisting conditions and actually like a virus comes to be if they die as a result of it, because you did not have access to healthcare your entire life. So COVID is absolutely a reproductive health and rights issue, but it's absolutely a justice issue because it speaks to the core understanding of this country and how it's actually espoused. Like colonialist anti-black principles and we're seeing it in full effect with COVID.

Jennie: So I've already been talking for half an hour, which I could talk to you forever. So I always like to end with action steps. So was there anything that you would like to see people doing? Like what actions can people take right now? It doesn't have to be COVID specific. Like I'm sure you have all kinds of actions.

Preston: So the first thing I'll mention is please, please, please research defunding the police and what that means. I know we don't have again all the time in the world. So I'll just briefly say, defunding the police really is about envisioning public safety differently. It's around the idea of what does it mean to take money and to reallocate money and resources from law enforcement agencies at the local state and federal level, and actually invest them in things that matter like healthcare like housing and I'll specifically say like abortion access, like employment. It's around like literally stripping power from frankly like a poor history of enforcement and surveillance and violence against particular communities and investing them in restorative and transformative justice programs and healing justice. And so that deeply impacts reproductive health rights and justice. Right? We have so much clinic violence. We have people who are being arrested and prosecuted for managing their own abortions outside of a clinic setting. We have people who are being taken away via state actors, like social workers, like so many of these issues around defunding the police ties deeply into reproductive health, rights and justice. And so one of the action items again, is to really just do research and research with an open mind, right? So the first question should not be, how are we going to have a world without the police? It is why do we believe we need the police in the first place, right? When we know there's a history of people who have never had the police as a safety measure. So that is a thing, why do we need the police for us? Why do we actually believe that the police make our lives safer? When the data shows us that most people, even when they're going through crises do not contact the police. So it's like, we're not even really using the police in our personal lives. And so it's like, when things happen, why do we believe that we need to police? And so again, the goal is not to convince everyone that we're right. I know what my position is. And I totally believe that makes everyone's lives better and safer, but that is something I would really love people to research is the intersections of like reproductive justice, the state violence. So defunding the police will help us all.

Jennie: I think just an understanding of what people are talking about. Like, I think there's so many scary ways that people are talking about it, right? The, like what this is going to mean and how it's going to be a terrible descent to lawlessness.

Preston: Oh gosh, I saw a commercial and I cringed. I think that's a great point.

Jennie: Make sure you're understanding and going into it with an open mind to understand what the conversation is actually about. Not what other people want you to think it's about.

Preston: Yeah. And can I also just name one other thing is, you know, in late March of this year, URGE published our first like massive policy agenda called a young people's reproductive justice policy agenda, which we set four, six policy priorities for achieving reproductive justice. I was really excited about this because we did this as a participatory agenda setting process with our young people. And so, you know, we talked to our young people, we surveyed them, we surveyed coalition partners, important members, and we asked them, what does URGE mean to you? What are issues that are impacting young people's lives and how do they tie to reproductive justice? And we were supposed to do a congressional briefing with people who actually supported the brief by Congresswoman Barbara Lee, unfortunately COVID still happening, but I want to name the six policy priorities.

Jennie: Yes, please. And we'll put links in the show notes.

Preston: That's perfect. So the first one is rule abortion access. The second one is comprehensive sexuality education. The third one is economic justice and the fourth one is democracy reform and voting justice. The fifth one is decriminalization and creating safe communities. And the last, and certainly not least is immigrant justice. When people think about reproductive justice, I really want them to think deeper than birth control, contraception and abortion. It is literally like, how can you actually live a life that's safe for you and your communities. And that involves, again, being able to walk down the street that involves not being criminalized, that involves being able to vote. That involves actually being able to make money and have a job that's safe. So there are many issues that tie together and young people see that often and they really see how interconnected their lives are. Right. They understand that their lives are not in silos. And so please, please, please. If you're interested, go to Urge.org for more information. You'll learn a lot of information and definitely feel free to reach out if you have any questions.

Jennie: Preston, thank you so much for doing this. It was so much fun to talk to you.

Preston: Thank you. I'm so excited to be back and I am so excited again to join you I'm sure again one day. Yay.

Jennie: Hey y'all I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. It was just so lovely to talk to him. Like I said, I love Preston so much. He's just such an amazing person and does such amazing work. So I, I just really hope you enjoyed that conversation with that. I will see you all later this week for our special bonus episode.

Jennie: Thanks for listening everyone. And we'll see you on our next episode of RePROS Fight Back. For more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit our website at reprosfightback.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at RePROS Fight Back, or on Instagram at reprosfb. If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and subscribing, rating and reviewing us on iTunes. Thanks for listening.

take action