A Deep Dive into Idaho’s Increasingly Extremist Abortion Landscape

White supremacist, Christian nationalist extremists have infiltrated state government on all levels in Idaho, which has created the political environment that led to abortion bans in the state. Garnet Henderson, Senior Multiplatform Reporter for Rewire News Group and host and producer of ACCESS: A Podcast About Abortion, sits down to talk to us about her 10-day reporting trip to the state of Idaho and what she uncovered.

 Idaho, which was one of the first states to ban abortion outright after the Dobbs decision, and implemented the “abortion trafficking” law (which is currently blocked as a legal challenge proceeds), faces a variety of abortion and pregnancy/childbirth barriers. Severe driving times, hospital closures in rural communities, a dissolved maternal mortality review board, stigma, and abortion bans themselves create a climate of fear and impact people’s reproductive decisions.  Thankfully, Idaho has introduced a progressive voting campaign and recently voted to expand Medicaid.

Links from this episode

Garnet Henderson on Twitter
Rewire News Group on Twitter
Rewire News Group on Facebook
Garnet Henderson with Rewire News Group
The Plan to Win Against Extremism in Idaho
When an Abortion ‘Abolitionist’ Becomes Your State Senator
In Idaho, Extremists Have Created a Culture of Fear Around Pregnancy
In the Dominican Republic, I Saw Broken U.S. Abortion Policy Firsthand

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Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice.

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Hey rePROs, how you doing? I'm your host Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, I am...I'm tired, y'all. I'm tired. I have been working really hard to finalize it. We do an annual 50 state report card on sexual and reproductive health and rights, and I've just been trying so hard to get everything to our designer and so just, like, scrambling and doing so much work and having all of these other things that had to be done as well. So, I've just had a lot of balls in the air and so many things, and I'm tired. Just so much to focus on. But everything got to the designer, so that's amazing. And that's, like, one big exhale and I just have to wait for everything back from her, which means I can shift my focus onto all of the other many things on my plate right now which is good. But like, again, I'm tired. And while you were hearing this, I am out. So, actually this is being prerecorded a little while in advance because I was gonna be going to Florida for a podcast conference and then have a friend join me and meet me and go and spend time at Disney. So, I am very much looking forward to the time away and to have some fun and just, like, learn new podcast things and meet some of my podcast friends in person for the first time in a long time. And then just go and eat all the food at Disney and ride rides and just have a good time. And I am very much looking forward to it and I can't wait. So yeah, that is what is getting me through right now is the stress of trying to get everything done before I leave and very much looking forward to the trip and all of the things there. So, I think I'll pause there because I'm pre-recording multiple intros today, y'all. And so, I feel like I'm running out of things to talk about [laughs]. So, let's just pause there and switch to this week's episode. I am so excited to have the always fantastic Garnet Henderson with Rewire News Group and the host of the ACCESS: A Podcast About Abortion on the podcast. She is wonderful and I'm always so happy to have her on. And we are talking about a reporting trip she took to Idaho and talked about some great pieces she wrote about that trip. And then we'll talk a little bit about a trip she just got back from reporting on the Dominican Republic, but the main focus is gonna be about what is happening in Idaho. So, with that, let's jump to my interview with Garnet. Hi Garnet! Thank you so much for being here today.

Garnet: Hi, thanks for having me.

Jennie: Before we get started, do you wanna take a second and introduce yourself and include your pronouns?

Garnet: Sure. My name is Garnet Henderson. I use she/her pronouns, and I'm the senior multi-platform reporter at Rewire News Group. I joined Rewire full-time in February of 2023, so I'm coming up on my one-year anniversary on staff at Rewire. But before that, I was a freelance journalist for about a decade reporting on lots of topics, but always primarily on reproductive health and abortion access.

Jennie: And also host a fabulous podcast, ACCESS: A Podcast About Abortion.

Garnet: Yes, thank you for that [laughs].

Jennie: And I can't believe- somehow it feels like you've been at Rewire longer, but also, like, oh my God, it's only been a year.

Garnet: Yeah, that's how I always feel. Yeah, is just that time is both sort of flying and dragging at the same time, especially ever since the Dobbs decision. But really, I would say since SB8 went into effect, that's how things feel and the pandemic and all of that. And you know, I was also- Rewire was one of the publications I was freelancing before I started there full-time. So, I was around before I was on staff.

Jennie: That's true. That's true. Okay. I'm really excited you took a big reporting trip to Idaho and have a great three-part series that we'll make sure to link to in our show notes. But I thought it would be really great for the audience to hear more about the trip. And we'll start with I think kind of how your series started and it was talking a little bit about extremism and white nationalism in Idaho.

Garnet: Yes. So, I was really lucky to get a project grant for this whole big reporting trip from the International Women's Media Foundation, which was really amazing because it allowed me to take a 10-day reporting trip which frankly used to be something that was really common in journalism. And now because media is struggling, it is not. So, I feel really lucky to have been able to do that. And I was interested in Idaho because I grew up really close by in Wyoming. And I think those are states where, because in presidential elections they vote overwhelmingly Republican people see them as red states. So, when they hear about a state like Idaho banning abortion, which Idaho was one of the first states to ban abortion outright after the Dobbs decision, and then the lawmakers there continued to go farther, right? They created that new crime of quote unquote "abortion trafficking," although that law is currently blocked as a legal challenge proceeds. But, you know, I think people elsewhere in the country tend to hear about things like that and sort of say, oh, well it's a red state. So of course that's happening there. But actually, I know that from having grown up in the mountain west, it was always pretty conservative, but also very libertarian there. So, there's been a huge political shift in recent years as the Republican party as a whole has moved farther right. And in particular as conservatives out west have embraced wholesale Christian nationalism. And Idaho is a place that has a history of extremism. What's different though is that the extremists there in the past- many people will at least have heard of Ruby Ridge, which was a standoff that happened between a white separatist family and the federal government that resulted in several deaths. Many people will have heard of the Aryan nations who used to have a compound in North Idaho in the eighties and nineties. Very violent white supremacist group. But the difference really is that those extremists in the past in Idaho were separatists. So, they wanted nothing to do with the government. They wanted no government. And now what's different is that there are extremists who are Christian nationalists, they're white supremacists, and they have very intentionally infiltrated the state government at all levels. So, we're talking in the state legislature, but also all the way down on school boards as has happened across the country. Precinct committees, so those are, like, the committees that actually control the operations of local Republican parties. So, truly all levels of government. And that really is what created this political climate in Idaho that led to the abortion bans there. It's not a longstanding thing there that people are opposed to abortion rights.

Jennie: Yeah, you're right. Like, when I think of Idaho and some of the stuff, I really do think more of, like, the separatists. And so, your reporting was really eye-opening to think of the ways that that has changed. And that they're trying to get more involved in state politics when before, like, really when I think of a lot of the white nationalist stuff that was happening out west, it was always, like, separating themselves into, like, compounds and not wanting any government involvement.

Garnet: Absolutely. And also, you know, I feel like extremism unfortunately is one of those words that we're hearing so much now that it might start to feel a little bit meaningless because of the amount of repetition. It is important to note though, that when I say extremists about a lot of these people who have infiltrated Idaho politics, I really mean it. One of the lawmakers I profiled in this series who is a state senator now in North Idaho is Scott Herndon, who was one of the founders of the North Idaho chapter of Abolish Human Abortion. So, that is one of the most extreme anti-abortion groups. That's a group that believes that pregnant people should be imprisoned for having abortions. Some of those members of those groups even believe pregnant people should face the death penalty themselves for having abortions. So, these are people with really extreme views. In fact, there were things I was told about Herndon that I couldn't even print that he said in the past, if that gives you an idea of how bad we're talking. Also really involved in the Republican party now in North Idaho is Dave Riley, who is a former member of Identity Evropa, a white supremacist group, and he was at the Unite the Right Rally. So, these are the kind of people we're talking about, truly dangerous people.

Jennie: It's interesting because it makes me think like it's like a little bit of both-and, right? Like them wanting to be more involved in politics and then right-wing politics, like more closely embracing them. Like, before it was kind of both tried to be a little bit more separate.

Garnet: Absolutely. And that was one thing I heard from a lot of people in Idaho is that they're really frustrated that a lot of the quote unquote "more traditional" Republicans in Idaho have really been pretty cowardly when it comes to standing up to this stuff. And they refuse to really hold their ground in what would now be considered a more moderate position, although I'll say where things have tipped so far right. That moderate is still pretty far to the right.

Jennie: Right, that Overton window, man. [chuckles]

Garnet: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And this was something I had to cut, that's the phrase that I would use the Overton window. But an ex-member of Scott Herndon's group Abolish Human Abortion North Idaho, who described that group as a cult, by the way, said that Herndon and another founder of the group used to talk about something that they called, like, the iron ball theory. That might not be the exact phrase, but it's a similar idea where the idea is if you had like a sheet hanging on a line to dry after doing your laundry, like hanging and blowing in the wind, if you throw an iron ball at the sheet, it will catch the sheet and it might fall to the ground sooner than it would have, but it hit the sheet and it pulled the sheet along with it. So that's the idea, right, is that you're always throwing that iron ball at the sheet and pulling it a little bit farther.

Jennie: Oh, I just, all the ways we've seen it happening, it's kinda wild.

Garnet: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: Okay. So, a lot of the things that we've been seeing have impacts around abortion and other reproductive health. Do you wanna talk about what you saw through that reporting?

Garnet: Sure. So, there's been a lot of reporting on the fact that a hospital in Sandpoint, which is a town in North Idaho, closed its obstetrics department and the labor and delivery ward. So, that was one of the first places I visited on my trip. There's now a second hospital in Idaho that has also completely shut down its labor and delivery ward. Sandpoint is a really beautiful place, big vacation destination. North Idaho has all these really beautiful mountain lakes. So, lots of people visit, especially in the summer, and it's a place that a lot of people live because it's beautiful. And it used to be a small town with a functioning hospital, and now people who are pregnant there in order to give birth in a hospital are looking at driving at least an hour, if not two, depending on where they wanna go. And this is a place that is cold and snowy. So, for anybody giving birth in the winter, that is potentially a really dangerous situation. So, I spoke with a woman who decided to be induced because she gave birth right around the time that that hospital in Sandpoint, which is called Bonner General, closed its labor and delivery ward. And after a couple of weeks of driving back and forth to her appointments in Coeur d'Alene, which is about an hour south, she was like, I can't do this. I'm afraid of getting stuck in traffic or something while in labor driving that hour to the hospital. And so, she chose to be induced, which she told me is something that she would not have chosen otherwise. And so, I think that's really serious. You know, even though she gave birth and both she and her baby were healthy and safe, it's a big deal when someone has to make a different choice about their birth plan or anything having to do with their reproductive life just because they lost access to that care that used to be there in their own community. And what I found really is that those hospital closures and the abortion bans themselves have created a really intense climate of fear around pregnancy. A lot of people are afraid to talk about pregnancy, just period. It feels shameful, it feels scary. And then, of course, people are afraid to be pregnant or they're afraid for their loved ones who are pregnant, even if they're not living in one of those places where a labor and delivery ward has shut down, they're worried about dying, right? Because the state's abortion ban is so, the exceptions are so narrow that I am aware of at least a few people who have been life flighted out of Idaho because they couldn't get the care they needed when the ban was in effect.

Jennie: Yeah. And I think, you know, most people might hear that two hospitals closed their labor and delivery units and not think like, I mean, it's not that big a deal, but like, I mean, you especially, but like, I also grew up in rural Wisconsin, so like-

Garnet: Yeah.

Jennie: -you know, if I had to get to the hospital from my parents' house, it was, like, at the far side of the closest city we lived to. So, it was a half an hour to get there. And if that closed, we would have to go all the way to the next city, which was much further. So, you know, it's not just like you have to go a little bit further. It makes a huge difference. And if you're having, like, an emergency or anything like that, it can be huge.

Garnet: Yes. These are rural, rural areas and I referenced the mountain lakes, but I think a lot of people who aren't from the mountain west and maybe even think Idaho's in the Midwest, which it certainly is not.

Jennie: Yeah, yeah.

Garnet: In fact, some people would tell you it's in the Pacific Northwest. So anyway, Idaho has mountains, okay? So, you might not just be far from the hospital, but you might be driving over a mountain pass that could be totally closed in the snow. So, we're talking about the potential of people being truly stranded and unable to access care, which is already a concern when you live in a place like that. And so, to lose even one labor and delivery ward is such a serious risk to the health and safety of pregnant people because, you know, Sandpoint itself is a small town, but like I said, there's a lot of tourism there, there's lots of traveling in and out. People were coming to that hospital from an hour or two away already. So, think about those people. The people who live in and around Sandpoint have an hour drive. Now there are other people who have a 2, 3, 4-hour drive because they can't go to that hospital.

Jennie: So, I can only think that this is gonna impact maternal mortality statistics and things like that. So, it's a good thing that they have a, you know, review board that keeps track of things like that, right?

Garnet: Uh-huh, yes. That's another thing that the legislature did last year is they dissolved Idaho's maternal mortality review board. So, it's the only state that doesn't have one currently. Although I would not be surprised if that's something we start to see in other states where abortion is banned. There was a bill introduced now in this legislative session that would direct the medical board in Idaho to track maternal deaths still. But the key bit there is that what those review boards do is they investigate every single death. They determine what caused it and they give recommendations about how it could have been prevented because we know that most pregnancy related deaths are and should be preventable in the United States. And so- and not just most, the vast majority. Right. And so, the idea that the state may—if lawmakers pass this bill—continue to track deaths but not investigate them says a lot to me. Right. Because lawmakers are still really trying to make sure that nobody's gonna be pointing the finger at their abortion ban when more people start dying. But sure. You know, we'll count the numbers still.

Jennie: It just makes me think back to, you know, the good old days when they used to try to have an excuse for, like, their abortion tomfoolery, right? Where it was like protecting maternal health-

Garnet: Safety.

Jennie: And things like that, right? Like, that was their argument. What was that...for [inaudible]

Garnet: [Inaudible] Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And even all the way back to Roe, right? That was a big part of why the Supreme Court made the weird kind of compromise decision that they did that left the door open to certain abortion restrictions that theoretically was to protect the health and safety of pregnant people. Yeah, I mean it's just, especially in a state like Idaho, it's just straight up intimidation now. It's really just trying to scare pregnant people, and especially anyone who is trying to seek an abortion. I mean, another thing I was thinking about a lot when I was there is just how scary it would be to be a teenager who finds out that they're pregnant in Idaho right now. Because I mentioned briefly that abortion trafficking quote unquote “abortion trafficking” ban. So, that law is blocked. It's not in effect, but what it outlaws is helping a minor travel within Idaho for the purposes of seeking an abortion if you're not that person's parent or guardian. So, I couldn't help a teenager—who's say my friend's kid—get an abortion, but my friend who is the teenager's parents still could. Now, Scott Herndon, that anti-abortion senator really wanted the bill to criminalize parents as well, but he did not win on that one. So, even just hearing about laws like that just creates fear. There's a chilling effect, right? If I'm a teenager and I've heard about that, that makes me afraid to ask a trusted adult for help. Or maybe if I ask, it makes that trusted adult afraid to help me, and then what am I gonna do? And laws like that get passed, there's so much press and then there's not usually as much press when they get blocked. And so, I'm sure there are many people who think that that law is currently in effect. And frankly, it doesn't help that there has been reporting suggesting that the law has been used and people have been charged with abortion trafficking when that is not true. That has not happened, and the law is currently blocked.

Jennie: Yeah, I was thinking the absolute same thing as soon as you were talking about it, about like how big and splashy when these new bills are passed and then they don't go into effect or they get blocked but that doesn't get anywhere near as much coverage or you don't see as much about it everywhere. And so, it just creates this air of confusion and misinformation, disinformation to make sure that people do think it's in effect with people intentionally pushing bad information. Like, it really inhibits people's ability to access care that they should be able to get.

Garnet: Absolutely. And you know, a lot of times if you just create that little seed of fear, that's enough to make someone feel like they're alone and like there's just nothing that there's no help for them.

Jennie: Right. Like, especially, I mean, I can speak from where I grew up, like, abortion was so stigmatized in, like, that small area that like-

Garnet: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: Being able to talk about it without having to think about this law that is currently not in effect, right? Like, was limiting because you weren't gonna wanna talk to people about it there to begin with. So, then you hear about this law like, it's gonna make it that much harder. I hope things have changed and that there's been so much amazing work done trying to destigmatize abortion, but just when I grew up that's what it was like. But I'm sure in a lot of especially small rural places, it's still like that.

Garnet: Yeah. I mean, the town I grew up in in Wyoming had Wyoming's only abortion provider for my whole entire life until last year when Wellspring Health Access, which is a new clinic, opened up in Casper which is great, especially because they're providing abortion care all the way up until the state's legal limit, which is 23 weeks, six days. And that was not available previously. And so, I remember years ago I was talking to a friend, someone I grew up with, and she told me that she had a pregnancy scare when we were in high school. In the end it turned out that she was not pregnant, but she thought she was, and she was trying to figure out how to get an abortion and she told me that she had thought she was gonna have to get to Colorado somehow. And I was like, what are you talking about? We have an abortion provider here and she had had no idea. She never knew that there was an abortion provider in town because it wasn't something that she had heard talked about.

Jennie: [Sigh] Yeah. Okay. So, I think let's turn to like, how are people fighting, pushing back on this? Like, that was, like, a great thing to hear about was the ways that people are trying to push back on everything that's happening in Idaho.

Garnet: Yeah, I was really glad I got to highlight that because as everyone will now know, having just heard this conversation, there is a lot of really bad stuff going on. I can't sugarcoat that, but people are really working hard to push back against it on all kinds of different levels. So, I talked to some anti-fascist organizers who are really out there literally on the streets, always trying to show up to have some kind of counteraction when white supremacist groups like Patriot Front or local militias have demonstrations, especially in the Capitol in Boise. And then there's a lot of really interesting organizing happening on a political level. There are a lot of Republicans who don't feel represented by what's going on in Idaho. They want the party to come back to a more moderate position. And so, they're organizing to take over those little local seats—I mentioned precinct committees before—those kind of decision making positions within the Republican party. There are a lot of people who are trying to run for those seats and get the extremists out. And then probably the most exciting is that there's a campaign to reopen the primary elections in Idaho. So, Idaho used to have an open primary system, so you could literally just walk up to vote that day and choose which ballot you wanted, choose which party's primary you wanted to vote in. And that changed about 10 years ago and that's really when the Republican party—and of course it changed by the way, because of the Idaho Republican Party and the lawsuit that they brought—and it was after they were able to close the primaries that the party really took that extremist rightward turn. So, there's a campaign to get a measure on the ballot for 2024 that would create not only a completely open—so essentially, like, nonpartisan primary system—but it would introduce ranked choice voting into those primaries. This is frankly, a more progressive policy than you are gonna see in a lot of quote unquote "blue states.” So I was really glad to be able to highlight that because this is exactly what I'm talking about. If you're looking at Idaho and saying, "ugh, it's a red state, of course that's happening there," you are completely missing so much of what's happening politically in Idaho. So, this initiative is well on its way to gathering enough signatures to get on the ballot. Everyone I spoke with expects it to succeed. The effort is being led in part by an organization called Reclaim Idaho that successfully got a ballot measure that expanded Medicaid even after the governor of Idaho had refused to do that. That's also something that people wouldn't have expected to succeed there. And it did. So, I think that's a really exciting effort. I'm certainly gonna be keeping a really close eye to see what happens with that in 2024.

Jennie: That was really exciting when I saw the Medicaid expansion finally happen.

Garnet: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: That's one of those things we track on our 50-state report card, and so there's only a handful that are still, like, really holding out and it was really exciting to see Idaho finally change on that. This year we added the maternal health expansion to the report card.

Garnet: Mm-hmm.

Jennie: We will be when it comes out. I am currently working on getting it finalized. And there's again, only a very small handful of states that have not expanded their maternal health coverage for one year postpartum.

Garnet: Which Idaho lawmakers did not.

Jennie: Correct.

Garnet: They declined to do that too.

Jennie: Yeah. So, yeah, that just made me think of that. Okay. So, we always end with, like, what can our audience do, but I'm gonna bump that up to this part because we have one more thing we're gonna follow up on afterwards, but-

Garnet: Yes.

Jennie: So, what can our audience do to get involved in this?

Garnet: So, of course if you want, you can follow the Idaho ballot measure. Certainly, if you know anyone who lives in Idaho make sure they know that that's happening, maybe they can sign to help get it on the ballot. Of course, we want them to know that that's gonna be on the ballot if it succeeds in 2024. As always, give to abortion funds. The abortion fund that covers Idaho is the Northwest Abortion Access Fund. Right now, you know, if- unless somebody is ordering abortion pills online, they are traveling out of Idaho to get their abortion and that is expensive. So, abortion funds need all of the help that they can get. If you can't personally give money to an abortion fund right now, host a fundraiser for them, you know, try and do something to help boost them because they're seeing a drop off in donations and they really need more support.

Jennie: Okay. So, now the most recent bit of reporting you did on another trip you had to the Dominican Republic. Do you wanna tell us a little bit about that?

Garnet: Sure. Yeah. So, that was actually another grant-funded trip. So, very grateful again to the IWMF for providing funds for that trip. But I got to travel alongside a group of state lawmakers who visited the Dominican Republic. The trip was organized by State Innovation Exchange, which many listeners of your podcast will know, and the Women's Equality Center. And so, this was a group of state lawmakers who were in the Dominican Republic to learn about the consequences of the total abortion ban there. The DR's abortion ban has absolutely no exceptions. Of course, there are people who find a way as happens everywhere, wealthy people can travel, they can pay for private clinics, which we were told are more permissive sometimes, and then of course there are networks that help people get abortion pills. But it's a really risky proposition there because police literally monitor the hospitals. So, if you come in with vaginal bleeding, they're gonna suspect you of having an abortion and potentially arrest you. And then of course there are people who die because they have health complications and hospitals will not help them end their pregnancies. So, the lawmakers were there to learn about that since of course we're in a situation in the United States where we have total abortion bans in many states now too. And we were also there to learn about how people organize to try and change the law. So, there's a really longstanding, like 20-year-old campaign in the DR to try and get three exceptions or tres causales into the law, which people who are familiar with the abortion rights movement in Latin America will also be familiar with because that's a really region-wide framework. So, just trying to get exceptions into the law to save the life of the pregnant person for fatal fetal anomalies or for rape or incest as a starting point. Current president in the DR says he supports that, but he has done absolutely nothing to make it happen. And three of the lawmakers on the trip are lawmakers from New York. And New York City—the New York metro area—I should say has the largest Dominican population outside the Dominican Republic. And many of those people are dual citizens who can vote in Dominican elections and they do in New York City. I live in Washington Heights, which is a very Dominican neighborhood, and they set up physical polling places here for Dominican elections. Sometimes I'm walking down the street and I get confused like, wait, there's an election today? And then I realize it's a Dominican election. So, people here are really paying attention and they're voting. So, I think this is a super interesting moment because you could tell that the local press there, when they heard that some of those legislators were from New York, suddenly they were really interested. And I know a lot of activists are working hard to raise awareness among Dominicans here about this and try and get them to use some of that political power they have to put pressure on the president to do it and to enact the tres causales, so it's a really interesting time. A lot of people there told me that they think the next year if it's gonna happen is the time it's most likely to happen. So, everybody can really be keeping an eye out for that. I wrote a short column just about that and kind of the New York Dominican crossover phenomenon. And then I have more reporting forthcoming from the trip about the treatment of pregnant Haitian migrants and descendants of Haitian parents in the DR who are treated really terribly. They face discrimination and deportation. And so, that's gonna be what my more in-depth reported piece from the trip is about.

Jennie: Can't wait to read it. Already very excited. Well, Garnet, thank you so much for being here. We will include links to all of those pieces in our show notes. And as always, it was a sheer pleasure to talk to you.

Garnet: As always, thank you so much for having me, Jennie.

Jennie: Okay, y'all, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Garnet. It was really great to do a bit of a deep dive into what is happening in Idaho right now. And I am looking forward to reading more about her Dominican Republic trip. And we will make sure to include links to everything in our show notes and I will see you all next week. [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can find us on social media. We're at @RePROsFightBack on Facebook and Twitter or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprofightback.com. Thanks all!