Meeting the Health Needs of Sex Workers

APPLE PODCASTS

GOOGLE PLAY

STITCHER

SPOTIFY

The sex work population is one of the most marginalized and stigmatized; on a daily basis, sex workers face consistent human rights abuses, like increased rates of violence and lack of access to primary and reproductive healthcare. Preston Mitchum with Advocates for Youth sits down with us to explain this lack of access to healthcare and how it impacts an already extremely vulnerable population of people both in the United States and abroad. 

It is vital that sex workers are not conflated with those who are being sex-trafficked. People who are forced into sex slavery are unfortunately done so through coercion and deceit, and are exploited into forced sexual labor. Sex work does not involve coercion or deceit, and even when it is illegal, it involves consensually engaging in sex trade in exchange for money, services, etc., and making this decision freely. Examples of sex workers in today’s society include pornographic actors, strip-club workers, and people who have sex for money.

Sex workers can face a lack of access to comprehensive healthcare.  HIV prevention and treatment is often considered the primary health need of sex workers, and while this is a need that must be addressed, it isn’t the only one. While sex workers are certainly at an increased risk of HIV/AIDS, focusing solely on this specific topic can also construct a harmful and stigmatizing frame for the health needs of sex workers.

The criminalization of sex work means attaching criminal penalties to the buying and selling of consensual sex. Criminalization drives sex work underground and exacerbates negative public health outcomes- meaning those who are afraid to face criminal penalties are afraid to access the healthcare that they need, like getting regularly tested for STIs.

Sex work is a type of labor, although many discount it as such. It is an exchange of services for money, goods, or other services. Like other working people, sex workers have families that they want and need to take care of. The bottom line is this: sex workers deserve access to healthcare options even though they preform labor that is judged as religiously, morally, or ethically “different.”

There are U.S. policies that are harmful to sex workers both in the United States and abroad. The Anti-Prostitution Loyalty Oath is a U.S. policy that requires all overseas organizations that receive HIV/AIDS funding to explicitly oppose prostitution. Under the condition of U.S. funding, organizations cannot promote or advocate for the legalization or practice of sex work under safe conditions, and the policy also tends to conflate sex work and trafficking as the same thing. The Supreme Court has ruled that the explicit language used in the policy is a violation of first amendment rights in the, meaning it could never be applicable as a rule in the U.S. like it is overseas.

Two bills passed in the House and Senate were meant to be helpful for sex workers but had the opposite effect. The Senate passed SESTA, or the Stop Enabling Sex Trafficking Act, and the House passed FOSTA, or the Fighting Online Sex Trafficking Act. Both bills meant to curb online sex work, but instead shut down Backpage.com, a website used by many sex workers to advertise. Not only has this increased the law enforcement presence in sex work, it limited sex workers ability to pre-screen clients online, which provides a safety barrier.

Sex workers are people who, like all other workers, deserve access to comprehensive primary and reproductive healthcare and freedom from violence. Consistently stigmatizing and marginalizing the sex worker population means already vulnerable people will have a harder time accessing vital care for fear of criminal repercussion, judgement, and violence.  If you’d like to learn more about sex worker’s access to healthcare, check out the Take Action section of the shownotes.

Links from this episode

Advocates for Youth on Facebook
Advocates for Youth on Twitter
Preston Mitchum on Twitter
Information on SESTA and FOSTA
Sex Workers at Risk: A Research Summary on Human Rights Abuses Against Sex Workers
Body Politics: A Campaign Toolkit
Amnesty’s policy on the rights of sex workers
CHANGE’s report, All Women, All Rights: Sex Workers Included

Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back a podcast on all things repro. I'm your host Jennie Wetter. In each episode, I'll be taking you to the front lines of the escalating fight over our sexual and reproductive health and rights at home and abroad. Each episode, I will be speaking with leaders who are fighting to protect our reproductive health and rights to ensure that no one's reproductive health depends on where they live. It's time for repros to fight back.

Read More

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back. On this week's episode we are going to talk about sex workers and health care. Helping me dig into this topic, I'm super excited to have with me the wonderful Preston Mitcham from Advocates for Youth. Welcome Preston, and thanks for being here.

Preston: Thanks so much, Jenny. I really appreciate the invitation. Happy to be here.

Jennie: I would want to take a second and tell us a little bit about Advocates.

Preston: Sure, yes. For those who don't know, Advocates for You, partners with youth leaders, adult allies and youth serving organizations to advocate for policies and champion programs that really impact young people's sexual health equity throughout the entire world. Uh, so for us, we really describe ourselves as a 501c3 that's dedicated to championing and promoting young people's access to sexual health programming.

Jennie: So since we're here to talk about sex workers and sex worker health, I think a really important place to start is how would you define a sex worker? Like who is and who isn't a sex worker?

Preston: Yeah. So that's such an important question that you asked. One of the things that always gets really tricky is are people who conflate sex work and sex and human trafficking.

Jennie: Absolutely.

Preston: So those are very two different things. And I often find that when people say they're against sex work, they're not, they're getting sex trafficking and trust me, sex workers are as well. Uh, we're all against sex and human trafficking, right? Because this is about what's forced and what's coercive. Um, and so UNAID's guidance note on HIV and sex work, which has been refined, refined every few, often years, every few years, excuse me, um, in trafficking, it's about trafficking, coersion, deceit. So it results in various forms of exploitation, including forced labor. Sex work is not that sex work is about, it does not involve coercion, does not involve deceit. Even when it's illegal, sex work comprises, are freely entered into labor, right? So its people who can consensually decide to engage in the sex trade and it looks like many different things. The interesting thing is today... like that is what we're talking about today... The interesting thing is most people think they're against sex work. They're not. We've accepted it in many forms. Its just that some things are more societaly accepted than others. If you watch pornography, that is a form of sex work, and strip clubs are forms of sex work. Um, people think sex work is really just the idea of what we see on TV, what Law and Order SVU shows us around these brothels, right? Like that is a form of sex work. But that's one form of sex work. Sex work expands the gamut. So it's important to note that we're not discussing human trafficking and there's a heavy conflation. We are discussing people who can consensually decide to engage in the sex trade for it, for exchange of money services, et cetera. Jennie: You're right, this is the really key place to start because there is so, so much conflation around the two.

Preston: So I'm glad we're breaking down those barriers today. It's really important.

Jennie: So when we're talking about health needs being met, I feel like the one that people hear most about is HIV. And mostly as sex workers, as vectors of disease, but that's a really, one, harmful frame, but not a very full frame. So do you maybe want to talk a little bit about that?

Preston: Sure. Um, it's a harmful frame and it's not even a helpful frame, right? Like certainly we understand that sex workers are at an increased rate for HIV because of discrimination, stigma, cultural incompetency among clinics and other clinical care and other providers. Um, what's really important to know though when we're discussing sex work is sex work criminalization. In most countries and most states throughout the entire world, sex work is in some way is criminalized. And so what is sex work criminalization? So it's criminal penalties attached to the buying and selling of consensual sex. So that is if someone literally is on a social media application or you know, before something like FOSTA, which we can discuss later, um, was used, people would, you know, go on back page or a craigslist, um, or another form of social media or online communications and say, you know, I, you know, basically set up, set up whatever that exchange is, and then there could be criminal penalties attached to not only buying sex but selling sex. Right? And so because of that, many people don't get tested, it drives sex, work underground. So that in turn exacerbates public health outcomes, um, one of which is HIV. But that's only one of them. As you just so brilliantly noted, globally female sex workers, many sex, all sex workers, frankly, but mostly female sex workers continue to be framed largely in terms of HIV acquisition and risk, um, although as though it represents the full depth and breadth of their health work or their health experiences. Um, and so while rights based prevention, treatment and care is essential, sex workers are people with a range of sexual and reproductive health and rights needs. And the right to comprehensive nondiscriminatory care, um, including service delivery. So to be clear, over the years, the US government has gradually intensified its programming when it comes to sex work in sex work programming such as linkages. That's an example of what happens with US agencies working with key populations. Um, so that's recent projects, but it we, it would, it will be doable. It would do a disservice to not talk about family planning services, gender based violence really, you name it maternal and child health care. The poor SRHR outcomes that expands beyond the gamut of HIV. Again, HIV is definitely a component of some of the outcomes that sex workers can have because of the institutionalized, sometimes racism, misogyny, patriarchy that happens within health care systems and what happens literally to the bodies of sex workers. But HIV is not it, it's an endemic issue beyond HIV.

Jennie: Yeah. And you talked a little bit about stigma, you know, you have that on the provider side as well. So it's hard for them to find providers who will treat them. So beyond prevention when you're thinking about HIV treatment, that can be a real barrier as well.

Preston: Yes, absolutely. It's, it's, it's a consistent barrier. And I do think that one of the things that's really important is the way we all discuss sex. One of the things that's really important is the way we all discuss sex work. You know, I think it's really important that, for us to not stigmatize sex work. And so I'll be very transparent. There's applications that some of your viewers may or may not know, some of which are jacked, Grindr, some people call them hookup apps but really, I mean they're just for exchange of communication. But yes, some people do use them to, to have sex. O,n many of those profiles on some of those profiles rather, you'll see, you know, folks who are like generous folks only, right? And so what that triggers are people saying, I have sex for money or other services. It could be a place to live. And so many other people in other profiles will post things that are negating their experiences, saying things like, get a real job. Well, sex work is a job. Sex work is labor. You know, the reason why we're wanting to frame sex work as labor is because there are certain conditions that are attached to people who are actually fully inviolable employees. At least the way we look at it as, as people living in the United States. And so for us, what that means is the way we talk about sex work must be in a way that's nondiscriminatory, that doesn't put value based judgements against someone's work. Because what we're doing is creating a bubble of folks for like in judging them for the way they access services and the way they access money while we're doing jobs that many of us hate on a daily basis, right? We just do it in ways that look different, that the US government taxes frequently, um, that makes us get up at eight o'clock in the morning every day, and dread, and post Facebook statuses about it. Right? And so I think we can have that conversation, but we need to be very honest about why maybe sex workers engage in, in the sex trade, right? Sometimes people are just happy about doing it because they're good at it, they're good at sex, and that's okay. Other people are, you know, Trans folks who are discriminated against and they can't get any other jobs. So what happens uh, is they re they resort to the sex work sometimes. It's called survival sex. And so I think it's important for us when you and I, your viewers and other people are having this conversation to make sure that we're not having a conversation in a way that's really harmful to sex workers.

Jennie: You know, another area that you touched on a little bit is family planning needs. A lot of times people just think about, well they're sex workers, they just need to prevent a pregnancy, not thinking about their life outside of their job, right? That maybe they want to get pregnant with their partner, but not the people that they are engaging in sex work with.

Preston: Right. Well, sex workers have families. Sex workers need to take care of their families. We're not going to take care of sex workers, families. We, heck, some of us complained that sex workers even have families because dare they, right. How dare they do something that's looked at as so reprehensible and still be able to take care of their, their loved ones. And, and for us it's very simple, right? Like people are people, their experiences are their experiences and people need to be able to take care of their families as best as possible. Um, and so you know, that and that, that is where I stand as someone who's a part of the founding member of the Sex Workers Advocates Coalition. We're really looking at ways to decriminalize sex work all over the District of Columbia. And hopefully that expands out to the entire nation. And eventually the world. You know, like people have, sex workers have children, right? Like, it's the same way that, you know, my mom, you know, who was not a sex worker, would take me to the doctors, right? Because I needed health care needs. She needed a health care needs. You know, why would we not also grant that to sex workers simply because they perform labor in ways that are different than you and I, and I think that is the problematic stance that many of us finds ourselves in. Yeah, we're making value based, usually religious based, moral based, judgments on people and how they access money. Um, you know, and what we're not doing is finding solutions. And apart from not finding solutions, we're criminalizing that behavior. We're literally telling people you are doing something that's so viral that so vitriolic that we're going to attach a penalty, and you can go to jail for up to 10 to 15 years just for what's called prostitution-related offenses, right? We're not looking for solutions. And, and with that we could talk about mass incarceration and about how mass incarceration doesn't help anyone, especially not marginalized communities, particularly marginalized communities who are LGBTQ plus who are black and brown, those who are economically, socially and systemically disenfranchised. So it's very harmful. And so, you know, when we talk about sex work criminalization, it's also important to really talk about the harms that mass incarceration have on people of color, particularly black folks.

Jennie: Yeah. And when you think about criminalization, it makes it harder for sex workers to report violence, right? Like if you are worried that the person that you were engaging in sex work with attacked you, it makes it harder to go and report that crime to the police because you're engaging in an illegal activity.

Preston: Yes. And this is something that happens often, Jennie. And this is something that expands beyond the United States. But in the United States, a couple of years ago, Monica Jones was walking around with a condom and the police officers used that condom as evidence that she was sex work, that she, that she was actually engaged in the sex trade. Which is interesting because ordinarily we talk about condoms as if it's like the, the silver bullet to ending HIV.

Jennie: And that you should always have one, just in case right?

Preston: But then when someone does have a condom, they're put in an untenable situation because if they are, if they are a sex worker right, then they can not carry a condom and then possibly, you know, acquire HIV or other STIs. And then if they're that they are carrying a condom, they can be arrested as like as a, one, as someone who is a sex worker. And they may not be, but it's the one who's literally like, you know, about to engage in the sex trade when they could just be protecting themselves later down the line just as a casual encounter. Um, and so it's really dangerous when we have things like that in New York. Um, and that again, that literally just happened I believe in 2014 or 2015. We have places in South Africa where sex workers have reported, um, that police officers have confiscated their ARVs. So literally their medication to, to like to stop or prevent HIV or at least like in stuff like that, the really good every day. And when it's literally like they're literally having their, their medication, their medicines removed and detained. Um, and this is when they're in, you know, they're in law enforcement facilities. In India, we have examples of what's called raid and rescue operations where they're like, think they're helping sex workers, but they're really harming sex workers and their operations that sometimes happen in beautician or like places of beauty salons, like beauty supplies and nail shops, et cetera. And they undermine the needs and well being of sex workers. Police abuse sex workers. And they put them, again in this situation of carrying condoms or medication, um, to protect your own health care needs and the needs of your clients, frankly, or forgo protection, out of fear of abuse or exploitation by law enforcement. Uh, neither of which is a real choice and either of which can send someone to jail for a long time or frankly have them living with, with really a condition for the rest of their lives. Something they really are trying to prevent. And something in the public health sector that we've been trying to prevent for a long time too.

Jennie: Right. And you know, you're talking about, you know, the arrests for carrying condoms, but you also worry about, you hear reports particularly, um, oversees about sex workers encountering violence when and during from the police during those times.

Preston: Absolutely. I mean, what we often see happens is even when police officers have this interesting interaction, which is usually violent, frankly, interaction with, with sex workers or other marginalized communities in general, you know, we will stand up. Marginalized communities have often stood up against police officers. We can think of the connection between the LGBT community and in New York, so Greenwich village for example, um, where, you know, black and Puerto Rican, mostly trans women stood up and fought against violence from police officers. And this is really no different. There's a clear intersectional link between what's happening in certain communities, particularly marginalized communities. Sex workers are no different, but we often still see that the police officers enact force and violence, even in moments where sex workers are not resisting or fighting back. Now I'm always for resistance and fighting back. And so I think anyone follows me on social media knows that. But even in situations where there's no resist, or minimal resistance, there is still a situation where the police officers said this, we know the court system and I will take the, the unfortunate privilege of being an attorney in this situation, where we know sometimes the justice system, we know most of the time, frankly, the justice system is not just for many people. Um, and so, you know, when sex workers are put in this situation where they're every day attempting to just access health care services, even when they're not being able to access health care services, what often happens is they'll can be thrown into the prison. So you know what we call it sometimes is the clinic, is this clinic to prison pipeline, right? Like you can sometimes go through the clinic and if you can't go to the clinic, you may still see yourself in, in, in, in prison. It's all, you know, there's kind of this, this eerie understanding that if you don't get caught up in the school to prison pipeline, you may later down the line still get caught up in the clinic to prison pipeline.

Jennie: You know, I think a lot of times when we talk about sex workers, what people are thinking of are cis straight women, and often left behind are men or the LGBTQ community. And they're are groups that are particularly at risk.

Preston: Yes. I think, you know, it's funny because I think a lot of that is just the way we actually frame health care services. The way we frame healthcare services is often for those who can afford it. That's how insurance happens. That's really how we act as health care services, so it's frankly, it's insurance providers are not willing to take people who seem like they can be really sick and costly. And so, you know what we see, we still see that privilege happening even in a health care spaces. And so when we think of health care systems and we think of it in terms of who's cis-gender, who's straight, who has the money, um, who has access to a good attorney or an attorney at all, who has access to the justice system. That's what we see all the time. This is no different. But when we look at the statistics, we do know that a lot of the, a lot of sex workers from many parts of the world are what still more of the economically disenfranchised of that community. Um, so they're poor or they're under or they're unemployed or underemployed. Um, they're LGBTQ, they're people of color, and namely black and brown folks. Um, and, and it's really important to emphasize the Intersectional link sometimes between Trans Communities and gay communities and those who engage in sex work. You know, I need for people to understand that sex work, many sex workers are not sex workers just because they want to be. And if they do, that's perfectly fine, there's still nothing wrong with that. And I also need people to recognize that, but many times we perpetuate why sex work continues. We continue to discriminate against people in the hiring process. We won't promote people, we will ensure that people don't have access to college education. We will ensure people and their families are not taken care of, even when they're screaming for help. We will make sure to enact laws and policy that prevent them from obtaining that help. And so, you know, it's incumbent upon us as advocates, and those who works in policy and research in comms to make sure that there is a proper messaging around what we're discussing when we're discussing sex work. Um, particularly sex workers who are really outside of the margins such as, again, LGBTQ folks, black and brown people and women.

Jennie: So I think it's a good time to turn to policies and policies that the US has that are harmful.

Preston: Yeah. So I'm a policy nerd. I'm always ....pretty, pretty, pretty sad actually, but I'm always really happy to talk about policy because you know, there are a lot of policies on the books that impact sex workers that many people may not know about. Um, and so, you know, it's really important to remember that, you know, sex work is everywhere. It's happening. There's always this old quote like, sex work is the oldest profession. Right? And, you know, and sometimes, you know, people laugh and chuckle, but, but it's true. Um, and so, but, but it's important to also know that even though sex work is the oldest profession, it hasn't always been criminalized. Um, it is, it is humans that have criminalized sex workers, mostly cisgender, straight white men, who ironically enough access a lot of sex workers and consistently, uh, who then turn around and ensure they're criminalized. And so of course that's dangerous. Of course, that's problematic. So one of the bigger one in US foreign policy that impacts where are, where the United States government money goes overseas is the Anti Prostitution Loyalty Oath. Um, and so also US policy that's requiring all organization that receives HIV and AIDS funding to explicitly opposed prostitution. So in a real world example, that's if I, you know, am an organization and I receive money from USAID or the State Department that is specifically for HIV, so it's a lot of times attached to PEPFAR money. So within the State Department,.

Jennie: Which is the HIV funding.

Preston: Which is HIV funding. Correct. Um, and so I have to sign something that specifically says my organization opposes prostitution. Um, which means I can't advocate on behalf of sex work, which means I can't, you know, really frankly, sometimes probably employ sex workers if I know they're sex workers. But a lot of it is really dangerous because it means that I can't do any work, even decriminalization work, which we know is, a public health, like positive net a for sex workers. And so, so some of the explicit language is, and I have the copy here, uh, no funds may be used to promote or advocate the legalization or practice of prostitution or sex trafficking, and no funds may be used to provide assistance to any group organization that does not have a policy explicitly opposing prostitution and sex trafficking. So one, it, it tends to conflate sex work and sex trafficking as the same thing. Um, and then two its saying you can't promote or advocate the legalization or practice of it. So you can't say, you know, nothing is wrong with sex work because of this. You can't say, if we criminalize sex work, um, it will be harmful to sex workers. And that's as a condition of US funding, which, and, and, and by the way, the Supreme Court has ruled that that language is unconstitutional because it's a free speech limitation. So we already know when it applies to US non-government organizations that are organizations that are either headquartered in the United States or another country but are still US registered, um, that the Anti-Prostitution Loyalty Oath could not apply to them. So its a way to apply to foreign non government organizations, so clinics and Kenya, South Africa, Uganda, Mozambique, et, etc. It applies to them. Places that may already be limited in funding that are attempting to provide HIV prevention and treatment, maternal health, family planning services. So we're putting these organizations in a really bad situation in a precarious situation, um, where we're attempting to tell them you cannot use your, our money, um, to talk about sex work even if it's going to help them in the long run as far as public health is concerned. Um, and so that's one policy that's important to note. The impacts of the Anti-Prostitution Loyalty Oath there have been studies done, it hasn't netted and a single positive result. So what's the purpose of it? Right. And that's the question we always have to ask ourselves. It has driven sex work underground. When sex work is driven underground, it exacerbates public health harm. Uh, it reduces chances of obtaining or receiving life saving services and ensures sex workers can't even organize. So they're prevented from even organizing what we will be able to do under the first amendment under the United States constitution.

Preston: Shockingly enough, there's another policy called the NSPD22. So that's the National Security Presidential Directive 22. So it's a, it's, it's odd because we rarely issue NSPDs in this country. It's a Bush era document that is on record conflating sex work and sex trafficking. So in the US government alone, in the early 2000s, President Bush issued a document that under our own policy, conflates sex work and sex trafficking. So, you know, to be completely transparent, you know, when I used to work at the Center for Health and Gender Equity, one of our biggest things that we worked on was trying to get the Obama administration to undo NSPD 22. Unfortunately, he did not, um, this was during his last year in office, and of course responding to multiple things. But of course we were disappointed that we couldn't have a friendlier administration do that because we're certainly not going to get it under President Trump, you know. Um, and you know how many people work under his administration every day cause someone gets fired every day or, or quits every day. Uh, and you know, and, and that's an unfortunate thing because while people are getting fired and are quitting, real people are dying where people are experiencing a negative harm and consequences as a result of being marginalized and being disenfranchised from multiple systems.

Preston: And recently there's two bills in the House and Senate that were recently passed that were meant to be good for sex workers, but were not. Um, and that's SESTA and FOSTA. So in the house side of Congress, um, FOSTA is the Fighting Online Sex Trafficking Act, on the Senate side SESTA is Stop Enabling Sex Trafficking Act. People who've signed these bills really thought they were helping sex workers. They thought they were making lives safer for them, but they were not. Um, it was meant to curb online sex work. What it did is, Congress effectively got back page, which is a database that sex workers use for the exchange of services. Um, they got it shut down. It has continuously drove sex work underground already. SESTA has made it easier for law enforcement, a group that a group frankly that pays for sex workers and we know this. Um, we also know contribute to gender based violence. We also knows that links to, to gun access, um, and there've been able to document evidence illegal activity, the that, but that bill won't make sex workers feel safe. Nothing in the bill is done to make sex workers feel safer. There's, there's often this idea that when sex workers are able to obtain the police or are able to report crimes, that for some reason they do rapidly. And they don't because sex workers realize frankly that police officers often the ones who do abuse and extortion and exploitation on to them. And so I think, you know, as policy advocates we have to be careful of recommending solutions that provided the interaction with the police. Um, is it something that's going to be easy? No. In the long run we really have to determine what will make sex workers feel safer, and its certainly not more interaction with police. It's frankly less. And you know, and I know that this may not be everyone's position and it's definitely a personal statement, but I am very abolitionist when it comes to the police force. Um, there's just so many linkages to patriarchy and paternalism and violence that, you know, communities for hundreds of years have protected themselves. And so we really have to get to understanding what restorative justice principles and practices look like without the, without the police force. And so, there's definitely connections when it comes to the US foreign policy. Again, we have the Anti Prostitution Loyalty Oath. We have the National Security Presidential Directive, we have SESTA and FOSTA, um, which has, you know, passed. And we've already, we've seen increase in violence against sex workers. And so there are many things in US foreign policy. Jennie: Yeah. And again, conflating sex work and trafficking is really kind of, again, where SESTA and FOSTA were, you know, trying to stop traffic.

Preston: Absolutely. After that, that's, that's always, that will always be the end goal is the to stop trafficking. Right. But also to have people recognize that nothing is wrong with sex work. And I, and I think, you know, it always, it goes back to what we were discussing originally. It's like what is the difference between sex work and sex trafficking? Right? Like, we all know that sex trafficking is a problem, right? It's about coercion. Its abou things that are forced, you know, we, we, we see things pulling on our heartstrings. You know, there's even been things in Law and Order where I'll see when they're like automatically make it a sex trafficking issue. And I'm just like, oh, I actually don't know if that was the sex trafficking issue. Um, it could have been sex work. Of course I'm that nerdy lawyer that was in front of the TV to analyze everything. But it's important that, you know, we realize that it may not be that situation. And, and, and frankly, Law and Order I think has done a disservice to what, you know, it's been on for 20 years, 20 years or so. But its really done a disservice to what we think about violence, to what we think about rape and rape culture, to what we think about the interactions with law enforcement and the fact that many people look at law enforcement as the solution. Um, for sex workers that that's not the case. And for sex trafficking, I would argue that they may not be the case, but we are not discussing sex and human trafficking here, it is people who voluntarily, adults who voluntarily engage in the sex trade. Right. Um, so that, that, that is an important note to make.

Jennie: Yeah. And I think also another important note was shutting down those websites, really limited sex workers' ability to prescreen clients that they were seeing and that this has been shown to help protect sex workers when they can decide who they're going to see by having this kind of barrier between them instead of being on the streets.

Preston: Absolutely. And that, that, and that is the big issue, right? It's like, you know, if you often, if you have a new person coming through who's asking for your services and you can't prescreen them because they don't have to put in any information online, you could be coming into a situation where that may be your life. And so I think, you know, what members of Congress did not know, likely because they didn't talk to sex workers, was that many sex workers disagreed with SESTA and FOSTA because they already knew that was going to be the case. There was, there were places in other countries where that was the case and they saw that that, you know, drove sex work underground, which one doesn't help, you know, public health and two puts people's lives at risk. And so I think, you know, I know there's still advocacy efforts against it and really working toward, you know, how do we now, the sex workers now live under environment where SESTA and FOSTA exist. Um, sadly enough, there's also been examples on, you know, certain community groups where we know that sex workers are now being like being told by their former Johns, you know, hey, we, we know what's happening. We know that you need us now. And you know, where does that put a sex worker? You know, because that's sadly a truthful statement. Um, you know, the lower, less than of services now or, excuse me increasing of services while also reducing prices now because you have to survive some kind of way. And so I think it's just really critical that we have that conversation of what these US policies, both domestically and abroad can do for the real bodies of people who are experiencing these harms.

Jennie: Great. I think that leads us perfectly into what needs to be done to help meet the health needs of sex workers.

Preston: Yeah. Decriminalization all the time. I'm going to always go back to decriminalization. Um, because it has to be a decriminalization focus and not legalization focus. And I think even this podcast can't, won't have enough time to talk about this.

Jennie: That's like a big thing, but if you take like a minute.

Preston: Just so yeah. So really when there's something that's legalized, it's something that, and naturally attaches a lot more regulations to it. A decriminalization approach really focuses on what happens criminally when people's, when people came get thrown in jail, um, as a result of an exchange of services. Right? And so, yeah, it's more of a, we're focusing more on a civil approach, um, than a criminal approach. And so let's, and that's really like in a nutshell, like focusing really on the civil approach, ensuring that people are not harmed as a result of criminal penalties being attached for, you know, exchange of, of, of services of monies, et Cetera. Um, you know, and there, there are many ports. So Amnesty International for example, has recently issued a pretty broad tool kit that focuses on the example or differences between, you know, sex work, sex work, sex trafficking, but also the differences between like what's legalization, what's decriminalization, what's partial legalization, what's partial decriminalization, etc. And so, back to your question about what can be done. And so I do think where the focus on anything that's decriminalizing sex work and focusing on public health. Some data for your viewers. The public health evidence is very clear. Decriminalizing sex work could avert HIV infections by up to 46%. But decriminalization is more about preventing HIV. As we stated earlier, it's about removing barriers. Um, increasing cultural competency, uh, really breaking away from cultural incompetency, uh, between sex workers and the systems that really continuously discriminate against them. Uh, the institutions that continuously discriminate against them and the institution that should really protect their human rights. Cause we're talking about human rights and social justice. This is more than just, you know, us, you know, having the language, right, it's about how do we actually have the language and then make that in a way where people can really experiencing the positive impact based on our language. So we need to remove criminal laws that would allow sex workers to do their work under safer conditions. And so SESTA and FOSTA won't do that. The Anti Prostitution Loyalty Oath won't to do that, NSPD 22, Bush's directive won't do that. Um, really having laws that tear away the criminal penalties, um, that would allow sex workers to do their work, to live their lives, to take care of their families is something that we need. They need social safety nets, uh, and demand justice when rights are violated. And so again, you know, demanding justice is hard when you're forced to go to the people who may have abused you. And so we need to really create an environment where sex workers feel safe enough to come to folks who are not the law enforcement who may have enacted violence on to them. And so again, it's just really important to note that it's a human rights, sex work, decriminalization is a human rights and social justice issue. Um, and all people, including sex workers are entitled to the full enforcement of those rights so they can fully live fulfilling healthy, long lives.

Jennie: I always like to end my podcast with an action item. So what can people do to help make a difference in this area? What actions can they take?

Preston: Yeah, so they can contact me at prestonatadvocatesforyouth.org or on Twitter @PrestonMitchum. And why that's really important is we have a sex works sex workers advocates coalition that is DC based. You know, I can give other things to otherwise, but as DC based we're always looking for new members, always looking for new support. You know what, I didn't get to discuss is there is as a sex work decrim bill, coming through with DC city council that we need a lot of push for. Um, there's also efforts going on a way for the street harassment prevention act and our DC city council. So that's an action item. Also. Everyone who lives in United States can call their members of Congress. It's important to call their members of Congress, talk about sex, work decrim, make them uncomfortable. Really remember, they work for us, right? Like they are doing the work because we need them to do the work. So those are the two action items that get some eyes.

Jennie: Great. Thank you so much Preston. I think this was a great conversation and I hope our listeners learned a lot.

Preston: Thank you, Jenny, so much.

Jennie: For more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit our website reprosfightback.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at rePROs Fight Back. If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and subscribing, rating and reviewing us on iTunes. Thanks for listening.

Take Action