Gender-Based Violence

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Worldwide, 1 in 3 women will experience physical or sexual violence in their lifetime. Tarah Demant with Amnesty International talks to us about gender-based violence, its ties to sexual and reproductive health and rights, and what it looks like throughout the world.

Gender-based violence (GBV) is committed against someone based on their actual or perceived gender or actual or perceived sex. Traditionally, GBV is committed against women and girls, but it is important to recognize that this violence can also occur in the LGBTQ+ community and against men and boys.

Globally, there is an incredible level of violence against women and girls. The persistence of global GBV is due to a structural imbalance of power, where women and girls lack access to decision making abilities, opportunities, rights, and protections in both their homes and countries. GBV takes on many forms, including physical and sexual violence like of domestic violence, dowry violence, or intimate partner violence. Not all violence is physical, and women and girls who experience nonphysical violence like psychological violence, financial violence, online violence, violence against one’s mobility, and violence against one’s children are often overlooked.

In order to overturn GBV, the root causes must be addressed. It is important to recognize that the right to live a life free from violence is tied to other human rights, liked education, poverty, or reproductive health-based rights. Reproductive and sexual health and rights heavily intersects with preventing gender-based violence. Because of this, GBV and women’s rights policies should be at the forefront of government priorities. When GBV and women’s rights aren’t considered a priority, it renders other projects less effective because women and girls cannot access their full rights and live free from the threat of violence.

Since the administration change, there have been multiple examples of explicit attacks on reproductive rights and women’s rights, and a concerted effort to redefine what women’s rights are. Actions taken and policies implemented by the administration disregard the safety and rights of those experiencing gender-based violence both in the U.S. and abroad.  

In February, Politico reported that the State Department’s annual human rights report, which helps guide U.S. political strategy and human rights focuses, will chip away language on the section regarding discrimination against women and girls, the LGBTQ+ community, and reproductive health and rights. Excising the content of this section produces a damning impact, changing the content of a government report from objective to ideological.

Those at risk of gender-based violence have a right to live their lives free of danger. De-prioritizing GBV is an attack on a rights-based society.

Links from this episode

Amnesty International
Amnesty International Facebook
Amnesty International Twitter
Amnesty International’s 2017/2018 Report
International Violence Against Women Act

Transcript

Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight Back a podcast on all things repro. I'm your host Jennie Wetter. In each episode, I'll be taking you to the front lines of the escalating fight over our sexual and reproductive health and rights at home and abroad. Each episode, I will be speaking with leaders who are fighting to protect our reproductive health and rights to ensure that no one's reproductive health depends on where they live. It's time for repros to fight back.

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Jennie: Welcome to rePROs Fight BAck. This week's episode, we're going to tackle one of the most prevalent human rights violations in the world, gender based violence. Worldwide, one in three women will experience physical or sexual abuse in their lifetime. Helping me dig into this weighty topic, I'm excited to have my friend Tarah Demant from Amnesty International here to talk to me today. Welcome Tara. Thanks for being here.

Tarah: Thanks for having me.

Jennie: So let's start at the beginning by unpacking what I think, uh, can be kind of a complicated question is what do we mean when we say gender based violence? It can cover a whole range of things so I think it's worth taking a couple of minutes to be like, what do we mean when we say gender based violence?

Tarah: Yeah. So gender based violence or you might see GBV is violence that's committed against someone because of their perceived sex or their actual sex or their gender or perceived gender. What traditionally that has meant is violence against women and girls. But it's important to recognize that gender based violence is also committed against LGBTQ people, gender nonconforming people, and even men and boys. The reality is though, that one in three women or girls will experience violence in her lifetime. And so GBV has become a, a blanket term for understanding violence against women and girls.

Jennie: Yeah, absolutely. But we always need to remember that it is broader, um, when we talk about that. So let's talk a little bit about what does this look like right now around the world?

Tarah: Yeah. So I mean, it's a staggering global picture and I think that that's one of the reasons that when we talk about violence against women and girls, GBV gets brought into that. Again, it's really important we don't erase gender nonconforming people, LGBTQ people, but globally, what we're seeing is an, an incredible level of violence against women and girls without exception and including in our own country. And that looks different in the same depending on where you are, the things that are the same is that this type of violence comes from structural imbalances of power where women and girls lack institutional and cultural power, access to the same decision making mechanisms access, whether that's in government or in their own homes, in situations where they lack access to the same opportunities, um, where they lack the same rights, where they lack the same protections. And those are the things that are saying the same no matter what that type of violence looks like. Um, and, and that violence takes on many forms and that can be, um, intimate partner violence or domestic violence that can be, um, so-called dowery violence. I mean, there's, there's just no end, unfortunately to the amounts of specific types of violence. One of the really important things when thinking about gender based violence, violence against women and girls globally is that, you know, there are some types of violence that we think of as, as being more violent, more horrific. And a lot of the time that's because it's exoticized violence. And so when we as a human rights organization are talking about GBV, um, it's critical to know that it's the same violence, and it comes from that same place of, of imbalance and power and balance, whether or not it's a type of violence we see in our own communities here in DC or wherever we live. Um, or if it's a very specific type of violence.

Jennie: Yeah. I think that's really important to think about cause and not all violence is physical violence and within that frame of GBV as well.

Tarah: Yeah. That's particularly important for intimate partner violence and domestic violence. And our colleagues globally and certainly here in the United States would remind us that, you know, violence is not always only physical either. And that can be, uh, power and control and psychological violence and controlling people's movements, uh, fear and threats of, of harm or controlling money and controlling mobility, controlling children or, or people they care for, et cetera. Um, and that again, like that's violence we see everywhere. Um, and because there tends to be a hierarchy of violence that people think of as more or less important, what we miss is that it comes from again, that same root cause, which is the imbalance of power and the imbalance of equal access to rights. Um, it also means then that women and girls and other people who experience nonphysical violence are often even more invisible in that work. Um, because there aren't the same types of reporting mechanisms, whether again here in the US or anywhere else where it doesn't signal in the same way maybe to lawmakers or to police or to other types of officials as serious violence. Um, one example of that is, is online violence and harassment. And actually Amnesty International is about to launch a report on March 21st about online violence against women, including trans women and gender nonconforming people, and the types of violence, psychological violence that people are subjected to online. And there's very little oversight or, or recourse for, for people. And police don't take it seriously, certainly laws don't take it seriously. But the effects of psychological violence are really present and they are really real. Um, and that's again, part of the spectrum of violence that we see globally.

Jennie: Well, I think it plays into another thing which is it's often a silent, um, crime or incident. And you don't hear a lot about it. The victims are silenced and talking about online violence, it's a way of silencing people to keep them from talking.

Tarah: No, that's exactly right. And of course there's an extremely clear gendered component of violence online. Anyone can experience violence online, but what we have seen in our research and what many other folks who work on this, this have seen is that women and girls and gender nonconforming people are specifically targeted because of their sex or gender or perceived sex or gender and speaking out in places. And so it's another way in which particularly women and girls are silenced. What, which is a continuum of what we've seen across history in our own moment in our own country and globally. Again, women being silenced and, and online violence is just a way that you do that in an incredibly accessible, incredibly like open access way. There's no escaping from that, right? Because the internet is, is everywhere. And, and there's very few people who can do their own jobs without the internet or some sort of online presence. But also it's a way of connecting with the world and information. And so if you are silencing yourself, if you're self-censoring because you're afraid of violence, it's part of that continuum of violence. But because it's in an online space, right, it's not seen as, as legitimate. And because its psychological violence, it's not seen as legitimate. And I think that's a challenge for us in the community of working on GBV, on violence against women and girls, particularly to make sure that we're seeing the spectrum of violence and, and all these so that we're not further making invisible survivors of this type of violence because we focus on particularly abhorrent um, examples or physical violence specifically, or violence in, um, war context. And all those are incredibly serious issues and we need to spend time on them. Um, but making sure that we see this issue holistically means addressing its root causes, which is power imbalance, which is women and girls and gender nonconforming people not having access to their spectrum of rights, including reproductive rights. Those are the issues that are at the root of those things. And if we address violence against women and girls piecemeal, we're never going to get at overturning the, the root causes.

Jennie: Right. And that brings us to a great way of starting to talk about what can be done. How can we address these root causes? Or what is being done to address some of these issues?

Tarah: Yeah. So, I mean some of your guests that you've already had who do incredible reproductive rights work and and GBV work, you know, there's so many ways to address GBV violence against women and girls specifically. You know, for us, one of our main focus here in DC as Amnesty International is making sure that the United States in policy, particularly its policy abroad, think about, thinks about how to address adequately gender based violence. Whether that's through our work with the State Department through USAID, through things like the GBV strategy, which is a the gender based violence strategy, which helps the US think holistically about these issues, right? That's one way is making sure governments, for example, our own government in everything that they do prioritizes ending violence against women and girls globally. What we've seen is when that's not part of a country's priority lists, when it's not integrated into the work they do, or when it's seen as a siloed issue, a sort of separate issue, something maybe they're like, yes, it's a serious human rights concern, but of course it's totally different than economic, you know, growth or whatever.

Jennie: Or these people over here are working on it so it doesn't impact exactly education, work or whatever.

Tarah: And what of course we've seen is, is not only is that not true that gender based violence is central to all those pieces of work, but it means that those types of projects that don't include, that are less effective because when women and girls cannot live free from violence or the threat of violence, they are not able to access their rights and other ways. And whether that is, um, a development project like accessing water or education or whether it is interacting with government power or even participating in power structures like that. If people cannot live free from violence or the threat of violence or the fear of violence, they can't access those other rights. So not only is it just a good thing holistically to think about, so we all feel better about each other, but it actually means our projects that are quote unquote different or unconnected, don't work as well because, because they are connected. So, you know, so one thing like what can be done about it is governments can make ending GBV ending violence against women and girls specifically the top of their priority list. Not only it will address that, you know, this is a human rights crisis. Like not only will it address that human rights crisis and scandal, but it will make sure that all the other work that the government is doing is much more effective. Because if you don't address GBV, you aren't fully addressing whatever quote unquote other issue you're dealing with.

Jennie: Well yeah cause it touches so many things. So we're talking about the imbalance of power and it affects so many different things, whether it's keeping girls out of school or marrying young, or all these other things that are going to have health implications, or future education implications. And it'll be hard to achieve other goals. So it's really important to see how so many of these different topics that seem unrelated at first glance are actually really interrelated.

Tarah: Yeah. And I think, I think that's one of the primary lessons of GBV advocacy, right? For those of us who work in women's rights particularly is making sure that we see things holistically. If we are siloed, if we work in these very separated spheres of work and influence trying to achieve, you know, very contained goals, that makes sense in terms of resources and how we're trying to achieve something that we can put down on paper. And I get that. But it means that actually we're not actually achieving, right? Like if I achieve a very specific goal, but it's not taking into account the holistic person and or the other rights implications, it's not gonna work. And that's a lesson from gender based violence that I think we need to do better in the GBV field but also across rights and access. And you know, nowhere is that clearer than in reproductive rights and gender based violence, right? So if we do not address reproductive rights within gender based violence, if they are fully divorced, it will not be effective. Right? Our work to end gender based violence. Because reproductive rights are central to that. And if of course in our work on reproductive rights, we don't address gender based violence, we're not going to do the job. It's not going to get us there because gender based violence is central to ensuring that people, particularly women and girls have access to their, their full, their full rights, reproductive rights.

Jennie: So a lot of things changed in DC when the Trump administration came. I know it's touched on a lot of different issues. So how has that affected, um, work around gender based violence?

Tarah: A lot has changed in the United States's official approach to human rights in general and to gender based violence specifically and of course to reproductive rights. Um, and you know, most of those changes have not been positive. Um, for example, in, um, this administration, we've seen multiple very clear examples of explicit attacks on reproductive rights and on women's rights, um, and not just sort of half cooked ideas that didn't quite get it holistically right. There's no administration has ever been perfect on these issues. But, um, but this administration has had very clear, very explicit attacks on trying to whittle down rights. And that comes from what seems to be a of a concerted effort to redefine what women's rights are. Right. Um, there's, I don't think that there's a person, at least officially speaking for the administration that would say that, um, that the u s government does not believe in women's rights. And in fact they, they would say that they champion women's rights, but they're trying to redefine what that is. And that is really dangerous, not only for the number, the millions of women that that affects in the United States and outside the United States because of the influence of us foreign policy and the government, but because it looks to shift are very understanding of the work that we do.

Tarah: Um, there's, there's so many examples, it's hard to choose one. Um, but I think a good lesson learner is one that at first, again, we might think of as unrelated, which is the question of the travel ban and the administration's attack on Muslim majority countries. And you know, at first one might see that and say like, this is a clear attack on Muslim majority countries, which it very much is. And that might be the end of the conversation. And it, but again, if we're not thinking of this holistically, if we don't see this as a women's rights issue, if we don't see it as reproductive rights issue, if we don't see it as question of violence against women and girls, we're really missing something. And that not only does that fly in the face of multiple human rights laws, treaties and standards around racial and ethnic discrimination, but also has severe implications for gender based violence. I think what, which is people who are trying to seek asylum because of violence and gender based violence, people who are trying to do work to end gender based violence and lose the access and um, or the, the types of resources that they could have gotten before. Um, and of just the signal it sends throughout the world. On the, on the flip side, right, if the, the community, if the gender community does not address these issues as gender issues, we also miss an opportunity to say, hey, like this isn't just quote unquote an issue of diversity, an issue of fairness and issue of US values, an issue of Islamophobia. This is also central to who we are as the gender community, you know. So for example, in the administration's defense of why they needed to close down travel to these Muslim majority countries, they listed at least two instances of why, because of gender based violence. This is why we can't let these people into the country. Right? And what that does. And like of course there's gender based violence in Muslim majority countries there's gender based violence, everywhere, in Christian majority countries, right? But what that does is it otherrises violence against women and girls seeing it's, oh well this is these other people's problem, right? Not us because we're not a, we're not a Muslim majority country. That's not the same. And of course like it's further feeds Islamophobia that like one of the visions that the administration has put out there of Muslim majority countries and Islam is as being an anti woman religion.

Tarah: You know, these types of, other than just being inaccurate, like documented inaccurate divide communities, advocacy communities. And so what you then have are people who are all trained to make sure we have our rights, all rights based communities being pitted against each other. And I think that there's so many opportunities in which advocacy communities could have taken the bait, right to say like, you're right, there is violence against women in x number of countries, let's put it down the borders. But you know, thankfully the gender community is smarter than that, which is like no closing down the borders. Not only is this excuse of years, we can see through this excuse of years, like you do not have permission to use violence against women and girls as your excuse for being Islamophobic. But in doing this, it actually has severe consequences for ending violence against women and girls, which is one of the reasons you say that you're putting it in there.

Tarah: And that's the same with the border wall, right? Which is beefing up border security partly because the justification of the administration was partly because of cartel violence against women and girls. And there is documented cartel violence against women and girls. But this idea that that, first of all, that's the only place that violence happens against women and girls or that somehow more important violence against women and girls than other places or that a shutdown of US government approach is going to address that I think is really dangerous. And, and those, that's a really long with an example answer to say that, you know, there are so many examples where the president has explicitly tweeted or made statements that are in contrast with long-held standards of women's rights and reproductive rights and the rights of all people. But then there are these more, I think insidious examples where you see the administration trying to chip away at select people's rights in an effort to divide the advocacy community. And again, I think that for those of us in the gender community, in gender based violence particularly, like we cannot take that bait and need to lead the charge to make sure that we're all standing together. Now that doesn't mean we're all, we all have 100% more energy to do, you know, 50 more things every day. Right? But it does mean that we recognize that our rights and our, and our success is tied together and that the uplift that we're looking for for women and girls to end gender based violence is tied directly to those people who are trained to make sure Islamophobia doesn't flourish more throughout this country. Those people who are trying to make sure anti-immigrant sentiment doesn't flourish throughout this country and become law and practice and policy.

Tarah: There are also just really specific direct attacks on reproductive rights by this administration, um, globally through there institution at the Mexico City Policy, through the global gag rule, um, through redefining what gender means and how they use that word throughout the State Department, through out the administration, um, through of course the attacks that have happened here nationally by, um, trying to shut down funding to reproductive health organizations, trying to ensure that poor women particularly and women of color don't have the same access that rich women have to reproductive, um, rights, access and health. You know, those are all really, really, there's just so many examples. It's hard to choose them. Um, but I, you know, again, I think the lesson is that particularly in the gender based violence community that while we should be strategic in how we think about moving forward and how we're gonna invest our efforts that we cannot see any of these as not related to our work because that is how, not only will we lose, but everyone will lose.

Jennie: Trying to peel the communities off, make everyone fight for their own thing and not fight together. And I think another thing that has been particularly striking, I think in this area with the Trump administration is the Obama administration was such strong champions of human rights in general. And the Trump administration has really stepped back from that global leadership in support of human rights. Um, and that's troubling.

Tarah: It's, I mean, certainly Amnesty International had many examples of where the Obama administration could have done better with human rights. And this administration has made very clear that it is not committed to the same standard of human rights, even in policy, if not in practice as previous administrations. And where the types of rollbacks we've seen are they, they're almost unthinkable. They're, they're moving so quickly and they're so vast, right? Again, this is not a, oh, we happen to disagree on this one policy point and good people can disagree on whether or not this right extends here or that right extends here, right? It is a full roll back of a country's wellbeing being tied to a commitment to human rights. And that you can see at every level and whether that is, you know, the United States participation and statements at the United Nations, the United States, obviously it's travel bans and who it will allow to come in the country or to seek to, to forfeit rights to inside the country. You know, that is a wholesale attack on human rights. And, and again, it is enough that it is an attack on a specific right and a specific group. It is enough that is an attack on women. It is enough that it is an attack on reproductive rights. It is enough that it is an attack on people, um, uh, of certain faiths. But more than that, it is an attack on the very commitment to a rights based society. And I think that that should scare us on a level that, that individual attacks sometimes can just be moving so quickly that we were trying to deal with, you know, every fire putting out every fire. But this wholesale sort of pull back from the idea that we are a rights-based society and that all rights apply to all people. And that broader picture I think is so much darker and so much scarier than the individual. Even the very scary, very dark individual attacks show that, you know, we're, we're going to lose the forest for the trees if we don't see this as what it is, which is a concerted, focused, specific and, and very, very explicit pull back from human rights as a general concept.

Jennie: It's dark.

Tarah: It is dark. And I think, you know, I, I think it's dark and it's important that we start with that recognition so that we then are ready to move forward. And again, as I was saying before, it's not that now we all have a hundred extra hours a week and we're all, we're all gonna be able to, to ride on every horse. But, but that we see it for what it is and we, and we strategize accordingly. And I think that what that means and sometimes what it means is more meetings and, and making sure that people are looped in and sort of, you know, annoying communication ways. But I think what it also means is making very clear that we're actually seeing the problem, which to, you know, to tie back to GBV, the problem is not this type of violence that is somehow different than the community violence I see. It is this broader problem of women being unequal to men. And here again, there are very specific attacks on communities that we need to address and that are very serious. And it is the broader problem of the United States retreating from commitments to human rights. And if that problem doesn't get addressed, if we don't see these individual attacks as part of that, we're never going to get at that root cause.

Jennie: So we talked a little bit earlier about, um, how GBV and sexual and reproductive health and rights need to, uh, work together and how they do work together. So let's talk a little bit about why that's important.

Tarah: There's so many, so many reasons why it's important, both like theoretical reasons and, and you know, moral reasons. But ultimately if you just want to be efficient, you can't, you cannot do one without the other. Right? And any type of rights work that doesn't include all rights is not rights work. And that's, that doesn't mean that every, org does everything, but that we recognize that as an organization's committed to rights, whether they're reproductive rights or maybe they are LGBTQ rights or they're the rights of immigrants, that all those things work together and that, that people are holistic, right? So that I as a ciswomen, you know, experience my rights all at the same time. I don't experience them as a woman today and as an American tomorrow and as you know, someone of x heritage the next day. So just to make sure our work actually works, I know there's some sort of like logical loop that I don't, it's so confusing when, when people want to sort of cherry pick who gets what right through your cycle. That's not even just rights work. That doesn't work. But ultimately we do that because, because it, you know, at Amnesty we've seen, you know, when you exclude rights from that narrative, when people do not have full access to the full spectrum of their rights, they're not able to enjoy that specific right you really care about. And some people are really passionate about the right to participate in one's government and some people are really passionate about reproductive rights and some people are really passionate about the rights of LGBTQ people and, and that's great, right? Like you should be driven by your passion and the change you want to see in the world. And when we are focused so closely in on one thing, we don't see that they're tied to each other, our work on reproductive rights, our work on the right to access water, whatever it is, won't be effective. So again, there's that really base like, well, if you want your work to work, you definitely have to see it in that broader picture.

Jennie: Right. And again, it's all just so interrelated, it effects each other.

Tarah: And I was like, yeah, I think, you know, one, one really good example. Um, and we have folks that, you know, Amnesty International is a grassroots organization and that means that we have a multimillion person membership and these are people from all walks of life and they do all sorts of things and um, and they are interested in all sorts of issues and again, they might care about one thing a lot and are happy to support the other things or they might just really care about this one thing. One of the really helpful examples, um, that I was working with some members and with who, who really, really cared about the right to education, particularly for girl children. And we're really invested in, in some of our work in western Africa in that region, on that issue, on in access to education for girls. And that's great. I want more people to care about access to education for girl children. And I was trying to explain to them why our work in the same region with the same groups on access to reproductive health was related and they weren't opposed to reproductive rights. But they were saying, no, no, but what I really care about is that girls in school. And it's like great 100%. Every child has the right to education. That is a basic human right and every child, every person has basic reproductive rights. And let me tell you why they're related. Because if a girl cannot go to school because she is menstruating and there is no safe place for her to deal with the issues of her body, she doesn't get her education. So her right to education is directly tied to her right to water and sanitation to her right to reproductive information, fact based information to her right to resources and access that helps her actually deal with the reality of her body. Um, or if a girl child gets pregnant because there is no access to birth control because there is no access to information about how one gets pregnant, then she's not going to be able to fulfill that right to education. And it was, you know, for this, these people I was working with, it was, it was just sort of like, oh yeah, moment. Like, I mean, of course it makes total sense, right? Um, and so like there's an issue where you know, so many people who are passionate about, about issues, particularly around the rights of women and girls, right? There are a lot of people who want to see things be better and who want to see us in a more gender just world, who we just have to make sure that, that we are working together and helping people see those connections. Now, it doesn't mean that, again, everyone has more time, but it does mean that the approach that we take to education would be holistic or the approach we take to reproductive rights would be holistic and include education.

Jennie: Or they want to do the nonsticky stuff, right? It's easy to say that you want to invest in girls education, but you know, reproductive rights that just complicates things. Let's keep it separate.

Tarah: I know, because it's icky and political. Right? And I think that, you know, one of the lessons for us as a global rights organization, one of the lessons for all of us, as reproductive rights advocates and for us as human rights advocates are who work with issues of women and girls. There are issues that sell better than others and there are issues that are more palatable than others. And you know, until we topple the patriarchy, which is coming, so raise yourself. But until we get there, like we, we live in a political reality where reproductive rights are politicized and where people find questions of sex and reproduction icky and, and they don't want to deal with it. That's the reality we live in and we have to strategize on that and we can't reinforce that. Right. That is reality. We have to deal with it.

Jennie: It doesn't change the reality then those things intersect and work together.

Tarah: Yeah. And we can't reinforce narratives which carve out women and girls the rights of women and girls away from reproductive rights, away from sexual rights. Now we, we can plan, we can be strategic about how we're trying to make gains and push everything along, right? But we can't carve those things out and we can't separate those things. Now again, not only because it is not how people experience their rights and I would say the wrong thing to do, but also because it won't work if we try and do quote unquote just our women and girls work and we're not going to deal with reproductive rights because it's, it's too sticky. It's too political. We're not going to succeed in our women and girls rights work. Um, yeah, but it can be hard because we live in such a time where rights in general are deeply politicized, which I find mind boggling, but particularly sexual reproductive rights. And I think that that becomes the, you know, the, the metaphor is terrible, but the elephant in the room where everyone knows when we're talking about, well, it's difficult to work on all rights. Like we're really talking about sexual reproductive rights because they are so deeply politicized. And there are other examples, you know, the rights rights of people in poverty, the rights of sex workers, things that people just, Ooh, so political and so difficult and very tricky. Those things are all true. It is incredibly tricky. It is very difficult and it is extremely politicized...

Jennie: But still really, really has to be worked on.

Tarah: And it can't be excised from our overall approach and our, our strategy. Right. And I, that I think is a danger in the community. I mean forget about the dangerous from without, which are numerous. But the danger from within our communities is wanting to be effective, wanting to do what is what we think is right and working for people's rights and in doing so, reestablishing hierarchies of rights, reestablishing narratives that, that silo rights apart from each other. And that's going to, we'll lose in the long run if we do that, maybe we'll win something in the short term. Right. And there's, there's something very seductive about that because we all, you know, those of us who work in advocacy for women and girls, who work in advocacy for gender, who work in advocacy for reproductive rights, we do this, you know, for the huge paychecks. No. We do this because we really care and we really want to make progress in the lives of people. Like we, maybe there's an exception, but most people I know are motivated because they want to do good and they want to do more good and that is a good motivation and sometimes it can, then you can lose sight that if, because your, you can see this light at the end of this one tunnel to try and make this, you know, this effort happen that we'll lose in the long run if we do that. And it's certainly like I'm, you know, casting stones in my own glass house as I think about our own strategies and approaches as a human rights organization and what we've uplifted and what we've chosen not to uplift and partly make strategies on what you can win and what you want to push forward. And partly because it's easy to lose sight that like, as my father would say, you rob Peter to pay Paul.

Jennie: Yup.

Tarah: You win one place while you're actually sort of losing the sort of overall battle.

Jennie: Well I think that brings us to the news that leaked a or late last month about the State Department making some edits to their annual human rights report. Um, and there were some proposed changes that get right at this area where you're talking about of um, chipping away at rights and not wanting to talk about some of them.

Tarah: Yeah. So, and late last month was only last week, right? I know it sounds so far away, so the time is so slow. Um, yeah, so there was a Politico report and then a Post report I think came out afterwards about, um, the State Department cutting away, chipping away or editing, depending on who you talk to, sections of it's human rights report. So you know, as, as folks will know that the State Department puts out an annual human rights report, sort of overview of human rights globally and then puts out a parallel report on trafficking and people trafficking and persons. And those reports cover all countries and they are supposed to be overviews of complex human rights pictures that help guide United States policy, strategy and interactions and human rights focus. Right. What the Politico report noted was that, and there had been some leaks in the State Department, but that there were proposed changes to section six, which you might not have memorized, is the section, the section on discrimination and that includes women and girls. It includes um, LGBT people and includes sexual reproductive rights. And then I think the, the last sub is just discrimination in general and that there had been a push from the secretary's office to pear that section down. So, you know, there has been a statement out from the State Department saying, wow, look, it's not politically motivated. It's really just to make this report easier to read and more focused on the actual violations instead of the context. And I'm not a palm reader or a mind reader and I can't tell you what's in the hearts and minds of people who make decisions. Um, so, what I think what's much less important than the intent is the reality of what that means. So whether or not it is to make the report more peared down, um, and it can sometimes can be a monster report, right? Um, or if it is because there's an ideological drive, the result is the same, which is if we excise the, the context, which seems like is what now we haven't seen the report, but like if that is what's happening, which it seems like that's what's going to happen is, is I'm taking out a lot of context and just sort of getting to instead the like is this law, is, is LGBTI um, behavior criminalized or existence criminal? Yes. No. Right. Without that cultural context and maybe linking to that context that that's, that is the same effect as the, as if it was actually politically motivated. So, um, to me, the question of motivation, it certainly matters. But ultimately I think the effect is what is most important here. So you know, these reports have been effective for human rights defenders globally. Like we know that as Amnesty International, like we put out human rights reports too.

Jennie: Which also just came out.

Tarah: Which also just came out. Um, and I'm happy to talk more about certainly like we put out reports to, and we know that human rights defenders use our reports they use Human Rights Watch's reports, there's lots of people's reports and they use the US State Department report in their own advocacy with their own government to say like, look, the US government has called you out on these things. And it gives not only that, that opportunity for advocacy and change, but also protection to human rights defenders globally. And it's able to do that, not because the human rights the United States is a shining beacon of human rights, but because it has been seen as an objective report that details out human rights problems and issues. And if instead this report is seen as an ideological document, if it is seen as, if it doesn't have that context, if it loses the sort of richness and that research, it's not a useful tool., Then then what it is is a database of laws, you know. So that in and of itself is troubling. The other part that I find that there's so many troubling things so, I don't know if I'd say equally or more troubling is the, the change of one of the section titles. So under the last administration and the Obama Administration, the section title had been changed to reproductive rights to think about that more holistically. The mandate from Congress of these notices gives your reports manatee from Congress and the mandate from Congress is specific to questions of forced abortion. Um, and um, and there's one other subsection that I'm forgetting. Um, but don't think about the issue holistically, but that's the minimum standard, right? Congress says, at a minimum you must report to us on for sterilization. There it is forced abortion. Here we go. And, and those are human rights violations. 100% and we should one hundred percent be reporting on those. Right. But what previous versions of this report realized under different state departments in the Obama administration was if you're also not reporting on access to reproductive health care, on access to contraception, on access to safe decriminalize legal abortion services, you have an incomplete picture. Like we can tell you the number of forced abortions in x country or the laws, you know, whatever it is, but that's not actually going to help in that if we don't think about this issue holistically, if we don't actually think about rights holistically. So here again is an example of where if we don't think about these rights, even within the same umbrella of rights, forced abortion forced sterilization, access to abortion, access to reproductive health care, that you know that work's not going to be accurate, it's not going to be effective.

Tarah: That is also though I think a very specific place where we see a very troubling trend of the administration making very clear its understanding of reproductive rights and, and what that means and who those rights are for and what the ideology is behind that. Right? There, there is, this is not going to, this is not the scoop of the century to tell you that this administration does not believe or support the right to access abortion does not believe or support in equal access to reproductive care, um, in, in, um, in birth control like that, that those are policies that are being rolled out. Right? Right. So that's not a shock. That's not a shock. But in, in doing that, in the human rights reporting, what you're trying to do is change the standards. You're trying to change the names and you know, the, the defense of the State Department has been like, well this is what congress mandated is for sterilization, forced abortion. And that is true. That is a fact of history that you can look up on record to see what was required. Right? But what the change of that section in the past to be more inclusive, not to be less inclusive, really signaled was this an understanding that our rights are inseparable and that reproductive rights are central to a person's full enjoyment of their human rights. And by that specific now all of that, all the stuff they're going to cut whatever we're going to see, there's going to be a lot of implications. But that specific implication is very clear, which is to say reproductive rights are not human rights, right? The United States does not believe nor does it support reproductive rights as human rights. And again, not the scoop of the century. Like you've seen that in the global gag. We've seen that in US policies, we've seen that in the presidents and vice presidents, very words and in many of Congress's very words. But that major shift I think is very, and something that we need to raise cain about. And I think it can be for those, particularly outside DC. I always think of it as like my mom tests, like could I explain this to my mother? Um, who's very like very woke and very into the work, but not always that into DC, right?

Jennie: Like right. No, I'm the same thing like...

Tarah: In the hills of California will my mother understand what's going on? And so I understand that like these types of issues like who's a nominee for what position or you know, is the State Department doing x subsection 12 on what data? That, that can seem very, um, can seem very DC frankly. But the reason that matters is not because we want longer reports because God save us, we don't. Right. But because it signals a very clear, official position that reproductive rights are not human rights and that that is the signal coming from the State Department. It's certainly coming from Congress. It's coming from the president. It is the vice president's tattoo, I would imagine. I would assume so. I'm sure that he doesn't because I'm sure they are sinful, but you know that we know this is true of those individuals. We know this is true of their agendas and now it is official State Department agenda. And that is very troubling. Um, so you know, we'll see how much get excised in the actual report when it comes out. We also have no idea when it's coming out.. I think another thing that's very troubling is the process and rule of law questions like what, how does government work like is government again, we have disagreed with administrations in the past. Amnesty has never fully agreed with administrations right? No administration has a perfect human rights record, but we all dependent on government working like government and and going through certain processes and we might then fight it out in terms of do we agree x, do we agree y we have different perspectives on how rights should be implemented or what is right. Like previous administrations have not understood reproductive rights as important, right? This is not, this is not new. The sort of level and viciousness is, it seems a little new but you know this broader roll back of how just governance works I think is equally troubling for us here in the United States. Cause we at Amnesty, have seen this in other places as the as governance erodes, right? Like all rights are certainly at risk. And the first ones are reproductive rights, the rights of LGBTQ people, et Cetera.

Jennie: Okay. On that bright note, let's turn to, uh, something more active. What can people do? What actions can people take to fight back on attacks on GBV or any kind of the, I guess we covered kind of a wide range of things. What can we tell people to do?

Tarah: Yes. I mean, it's always a party when Amnesty shows up, right? Let us tell you about the terrible human rights state.

Jennie: And I mean, I'm talking about repro under the Trump administration, so every episode is pretty exciting.

Tarah: Here's the good news. I think that, you know, the bad news is that we have an administration backed by a not insignificant number of people in the country who, who don't believe in human rights, who would erode like basic governance who don't believe in equal protections for LGBT people who don't, who, who believe that there is no such thing as gender, that biological sex is your destiny. Like these things that we know are not true. Um, and, and that we value differently. And that's the bad news, the good news. And people are getting every day in the news, you're seeing that, right? So that's the bad news. We're not breaking any stories here, but the good news is that we can do something about that. And I use the we very broadly, right? Um, we, like you and I sitting in DC can do something about that. We might need more wine to get through the day. Um, but like we can do something about that. So for advocates, for people who work in advocacy, you know, I think one of the most important things we can do is make sure that we are looking at our advocacy and our issues holistically. Our focus might be, um, violence against women and girls. It might be girls education, it might be environmental access, whatever. Those things are like have that as your focus. That is your work, that is your work stream. But are you looking at that holistically? Are you understanding, is it fully gender integrated? Is it fully racial justice integrated? Is it full? Like have you really thought about the way this connects with other things? And the opportunities that opens up for you and the ways that we need to support each other. Um, I think that's one of the most critical lessons for certainly I've been learning day and day again here in the last, has it only been a year? The last year is, you know, and to paraphrase Ben Franklin, if we don't hang together, right, we will all hang separately. And so that I think is one of the most critical lessons over the last year for advocates who do this professionally. Right?

Jennie: Yeah, absolutely.

Tarah: We have to work together.

Jennie: And we have to be better at talking.

Tarah: We have to be better at talking together. And I think as advocates too, we also have to be strategic and that is not always, I think particularly for people who care so deeply, which again is oftentimes why people get into this field. If people have other motivations, I'd love to hear them. Um, but like, you know, that we care so deeply that we're just ready to go, go, go. And, and really we need to be strategic. Like, think about why and how we respond in ways that we do, not just for the sake of doing them, but to actually achieve a certain goal, to really move us forward or stave as much ground as we can, whatever that goal is. Right. And there will be disagreement in the community and that that's fine. Like we are all, we are come from different orgs. We come from different perspectives. We as individuals care about different things and it may and have very different views on certain, you know, certain issues. But, so those I think are really critical for advocates. Um, if you are lucky enough to not live in DC or New York in the advocacy world, and you know, don't, this is not your bread and butter. You know, there's so many things and I think that in the United States particularly like reaching out to the, and we hear this so many times and it, it, it could not be more true. Like make sure your elected officials know who you are and that you are contacting them about what you care about. So if you are in the United States and you care about something like your elected and their staff need to know, and you can call them like it is so easy, like you can call them, you can email them. If you don't like to call people, you can tweet at them. Um, although as our report will reveal on March 21st and some sort of vile sess pool, but, um, you know, there's so many ways to reach out and make sure that your, your representatives are actually representing your human rights values. That's just one way, right? And that's the sort of like elected democracy way to go about it.

Tarah: I think the other thing is like in our daily lives, are we doing the things we believe in? Right? Are we, you know, here in DC are, do people know they're welcome? Are people protected from ICE raids? Do women and girls know where to get resources? Do LGBTQI folk know where they can get resources? And so committing yourself to, to that, that local work, cause the world can seem so big and um, and the world is big and there are so many human rights problems, particularly in this administration. Like there are ways to localize this to. Like always contact your Admin, your, um, representatives on global human rights issues. Like I would be, I would be remiss as a human rights global org to say that, but also like in your communities, like absolutely what is happening so that real people can get real resources. And where do you think that you have a value add? Right. And that doesn't mean like throw away your, your career and start over, but like, or like you have to give all the money that you were saving for your house payment. But it does mean thinking about the way that like real people live these human rights violations. Cause the reason we care about human rights is not because of documents. I mean that can be exciting for the nerds and us who love the rule of law. But so for all your lawyers out there, um, but the reason is because like human rights mean people can live lives of dignity and ultimately that's what human rights are for is to make sure that people can live lives of dignity and that they can, we can all lead regular lives of regular dignity and that we are free from the fear of violence. We're free from the fear of this, these attacks. And so whatever that means in your own community and like there's so many options, right? There's, there's just so, so many things you can do. But of course the first thing you should do is call your representatives and say, I care about x thing. I mean for, for gender based violence specifically, you know, we, the International Violence Against Women Act is one piece of that. And that's a, that that's a bill in house in Congress that would commit the United States government to prioritizing gender based violence through a position in the State Department and through a gender based violence strategy. And that's one piece of that work. And so folks can 100% and should call their senators. And their congressperson. Now if you live in the district of Columbia or in Guam and other non voting places, you should reach out to your voting friend who have representation, voting representation, um, who have voted voting representation. Right?

Tarah: So, um, so I mean, again, there's so there's so, so many things and I think that it, these conversations are always so dark, but because there are so many challenges to human rights right now and there is so much more resistance and that looks like a ton of things, right? And that that is for us in DC, it's marching a lot cause there's a lot of protests here. But you know, my folks live in a very, very small town in northern rural California and there are opportunities there all the time. And there, whether it's a march and showing your resistance, showing your community support, whether it's contacting your congress person or your senators, um, whether it is ensuring that local shelters have resources, whether it's getting involved in something that you didn't know, whether it's, you know, making sure your house of worship is inclusive, whatever that looks like for you. Whatever the human right is that that you care about or the people that you see that are suffering. Like there's ways to be involved. And so the silver lining to that is that there is so much more opportunity and no one should feel helpless in this, right. Exhausted. Sure, there's a lot. But like, but not helpless because there are so many opportunities. I think the worst thing that the sort of onslaught of human rights abuses and attacks could do is, is to wear us down and divide us. And, and again, you know, Amnesty has seen that in other countries and it's an easy road to go down where it is exhausting and at some point you're like, you know what, I'm just going to focus on this because it's the one thing that really speaks to me. And so then we divide ourselves and making sure that we don't allow this administration, particularly any administration than texting and rights to divide us as, as communities of advocates to divide us as people who care about each other. I mean that, that central there, there are so many opportunities. Yeah, certainly call your Congress people. Support the international violence against Women Act. Get involved, you know, get involved locally, but, but don't give up. Don't be discouraged, like keep resisting and anti human rights agenda.

Jennie: Absolutely. And that is the perfect place to end. Thank you, Tarah so much for being here. I'll make sure to link to Amnesty's new human rights report on our show notes page. Um, and anything else that we talked about. We'll make sure to have links so that people can get access. Thanks for joining me.

Tarah: Thanks so much.

Jennie: For more information, including show notes from this episode and previous episodes, please visit our website reprosfightback.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at rePROs Fight Back. If you like our show, please help others find it by sharing it with your friends and subscribing, rating and reviewing us on iTunes. Thanks for listening.

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